1,2,3, Hold Hands, In We Go!

I mean, honestly, Brita is one of the most amazing women I know. She's phenomenal. I've known her about 10 years, and I know her through Women for Women International, which is a not-for-profit global survivors of war. They work with women survivors of war around the world, which in itself is phenomenal. She's definitely one of my favorite people, and her views and her thoughts and her opinions have this sort of deep-set connection between women's equality, which is obviously a very big part of what she does, and personal development as well.
She's recently written a book called Fears to Fierce. So she combines these two things, which I think is quite unusual. And so it's really wonderful to get her views on things, which sort of combine this, okay, this is the state of the world, but here is what we as women and what we can do when we look inside ourselves to really create the impact. So we're very aligned in many, many, many ways.
Hello. How are you? Good. I'm going to say this with my best heart, right? You're one of those people. one of those people that puts these posts on Facebook where we should actually all hate you. You know, like, you're looking stunning. You look amazing. People would be like, 50? Well, Bridget, you look more like 22, aren't you? And I really, I normally delete these posts because I hate them so much. But for you, I don't delete.
Just saying. I feel like I should do it before I say this. I don't know if you saw it, it popped into my inbox this morning. It was a McKinsey report. And normally when I see McKinsey reports, I think, okay, I need to put that aside for a few hours and read it when I have time. But I knew I was talking to you, so I thought I'd read it. Anyway, I don't know if you've seen this report.
It goes back to a report from 2015, but it was talking about it again today and some work the UN is doing. Did you notice that gender equality could add up to $28 trillion to the global economy? I didn't know the exact figure, but I know that it just means I don't understand why we are not prioritising it more. Say you don't care about giving humans equal opportunities and access to equal rights.
Say you literally just care about at your own wealth. It still makes sense to create equality, right? It's really hard because the system that we're in teaches us that you, you know, you shut up until you, you know, if you don't have any other better solution, you better shut up, right? And that is so, it's like, you know, the system is so perfectly designed to keep its life, to keep itself alive, don't you think?
It's literally like the perfect conspiracy theory. Yeah, I think the system is completely designed for the status quo. I mean, it was designed every system, whether it be the educational system, the political system, the organisational system, our business systems, academic systems, whatever the frigging hell it is, it's all a system. Even how we think is systemic. We have been trained to think in a certain way. and it is doing a wonderful job at keeping down people who want to rock the boat.
Do not rock the boat. This boat is barely keeping upright. There's lots of holes in the boat. If you want to repair the boat, fine, you know, come with us and here's a crack in the boat. Do this, do that. You can steer the boat. You can take care of the people in the boat. Lots of women in the boat taking care of the people in the boat. But if you want to rock this boat, you're going to kill us all.
You know, like don't do it. We will do everything we can to survive. I'm going to throw you off this fucking boat. And that's what's happening all day. every day and it's doing a wonderful job of keeping that boat sort of steady and it's doing a wonderful job of keeping women particularly women people who identify as female people who identify different in any way shape or form all at the back of the bloody boat stay at the back of the boat and at the back of the boat all together you can have lots of great conversations about how we should all be equal but we're not actually that interested at the front of the boat at the front of the boat we're just interested in driving the boat making sure we've got enough food making sure we've got enough money to keep this boat going that boat's about to turn it's gonna it's gonna it's sinking it's it's flipping and it's sinking and and i love seeing you know i think a lot of women right now a lot of great people right now are jumping off the boat and it's fine i was doing this meditation the other day And one of the sort of visions or thoughts that came to me, and I wanted to share this with you, is how difficult it is to leap.
When we leap, we have to know what we're leaping to, right? And as a coach and as a mentor, this is, oh, what's your goal? What's your vision? Where are you heading to? But you're on the boat and you say, okay, I'm going to jump off this boat. It's just dark water.

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And there's no, right now, there's no like, okay, I think I'm gonna jump off the boat and over there is this beautiful desert island where I'm gonna have the man or woman of my dreams, the house of my dreams, the job of my dreams, the children of my dreams, the whatever of my dreams. So I just need to swim hard enough to the desert island and I'll get there. And when I get there, everything's gonna be okay.
Now that was a very nice way of doing things. but it doesn't work anymore. And we're all on the boat going, I don't see a desert island, I don't see anything. And so can we leap? Is it possible to leap without knowing what you're leaping to? I mean, that's such a leap of faith, isn't it? I think that's very, very, very difficult right now, especially when everything's going on. I tell people, okay, you need to leap.
Okay, well, hold on. I need to pay my bills. I want to try and do something here. I've got all of these commitments. I can't just leap. Don't say that to me, just leap. It's all right for you. Maybe you can leap. I can't leap. Here's a hundred reasons why I can't leap. What do you think about that? Yeah, I think two things. So firstly, Justin, what I think is making all of this also harder is because of the very specific situation that we all are finding ourselves in, where the discourse is coloured by the sense of crisis.
And often in times of crisis, the people holding on to the privilege use that to further… actually to kind of go even backwards, if that's possible, you know, for the conservative forces to become even more powerful and for people to say to you a little bit about what you were describing, you know, if you want to bring innovation, well, now is not the time for innovation or, you know, now is not the time for values.
You know, I believe in values, you know, don't get me wrong. And I would always be the first one to do a participatory approach, but not now. Why not now? Well, we're in a crisis. Like, yeah, I mean, I thought that that's what is particularly important, like to keep people together. And so, you know, so that makes it even harder, right? But it also gives you a greater impetus to jump, jump off that boat, because that boat, you don't even recognize that boat anymore, right?
Because it doesn't reflect your values at all. So the pain inside is getting so strong because you're being torn into two pieces. The one is this kind of narrative somehow, you know, you've got to just keep going because you've got to pay the bills, you've got to do it. And the other side is screaming. It's like your fears is screaming like, get off. This is going to kill you. If you think somehow you've got to pay the bills and that way you want to survive.
No, it's going to kill you. It's going to kill you. I genuinely believe that. I genuinely believe that if we if we live a life that is so far from our inner truth, that it's going to make us sick. And so, yes, it is correct that not everybody can just jump into the ship, jump into the dark water, but you can start to put the toe in, and then you can kind of maybe remember that, actually, do I know how to swim?
Yeah, I do. Okay, maybe can I get a life jacket? Can I maybe convince a few others to jump with me so we can swim together in the dark water? All of these things, I think. is really a metaphor for saying, take a moment and remember what really matters to you. You talked about faith. So that obviously has religious connotations. I talk about purpose. Because this is your life. You and I 100% believe that every single one of us, we have a purpose.
There's a reason why we are alive right now. and and remembering that and remembering your you know what at the end of it all you know what what what you want to be able to say that you have um what was your impact how did you make people feel you know what will people say they're not going to say oh you know she was she was on that boat she hated that boat i mean she hated it and made her sick but she stayed on that boat She didn't follow her purpose.
I mean, she really wanted to do something else, but she just stayed on that boat. No. You know, so whatever it is, there is something that you can do, whether it's, as I said, putting the toe in the water or just touching the water, or maybe you can put some goggles on and look, and maybe it's not that dark once you get into the water. So I think once the pain gets too strong, there is no alternative.
That has been my experience and you can do it gradually. There's a lot of focus on the people running the boat, isn't there? And you even said at the start, the people that are making the policies and the people that are making the decisions are at the front of the boat and they are the ones that we are relying on. So we're at the back of the boat and we're like, okay, they're the experts, they're the leaders, they're the ones.

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operating this boat. If I like it, I'll stay on the boat. If I don't like it, maybe I'll try and convince them to change. I think there's a lot of that going on. Yes. Unsuccessfully. Or with limited success, let's say. Or, you know, I'm sort of liking the idea of a revolution brewing at the back of the boat because there is a belief, isn't there, that change has to come. from the people at the front of the boat, because that's where changes always come from.
That's the system. If anything is going to change, it's going to be with the people who have the power, have the money, have the resources, have the influence. And they are our political business leaders, leaders of the big not-for-profit, the UN, et cetera, all the people we know what we're talking about. But I'm wondering about us at the back of the boat. and what we can do and what we can do differently now that I feel like a lot of the shackles are getting released.
Okay. It's okay to be angry. It's okay to have a point of view. It's okay to not be pleasing everybody else. It's okay to focus on yourself. Whereas it has always been, we have to focus on everyone and focus on everyone else. Make sure everyone else in the back of the boat is eating, sleeping, has enough clothes, is warm. et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then if and only when everybody to your standards, which are incredibly high, to your standards is eating, sleeping, warm, emotionally stable, following their dreams, when all of that is correct as per your standards, you may and only then may you do the things that you want to do and take care of your own health, warmth, food, purpose. goals, whatever it is.
Now, if that was released, yeah, there's a whole load of women, but what a selfish act. Oh my gosh, I couldn't do that. But imagine that for a second, if all of that was released, all of this, all of this, I should, I should, I should say it like this. I should do it like this. I need to wait until, and there's a lot of, I'll wait until when? I'll wait until the kids are old enough before I leave this relationship.
I'll wait until coronavirus is over before I really try and fulfill my dreams. I'll wait until my boss looks like he or she is happy again before I approach to try and do something different in this organization. Oh, goodness knows I wouldn't apply for a pay rise right now. Ooh, ask for a pay rise right now, not when we're in a crisis. We're all sitting in the bloody waiting room. Waiting room, yes, I love that.
The waiting room. And there's something about a lack of honesty. I think there's a lack of honesty because I think sometimes even describing it the way that you did, you know, that we look after everyone else and it still kind of sounds a little bit like, yeah, that's good. You know, that is what women should do. I mean, you know, that's a good thing. That's empathetic, but that's caring. You know, how can you make that sound like a bad thing?
And so it doesn't even sound that bad when you say it. And so I was thinking to myself, this should sound worse than it does, right? This is like, how is this okay that we are here looking after everybody else and we're not, you know, looking after our anger, expressing it and going for the things that we want to go for. And I think it's because there is not enough honesty and it's not enough honesty with ourselves and not enough honesty with the people around us who love us.
And I just thought, I've been thinking about this a lot in the recent months about honesty. And I wonder whether that could be a different way of getting us to stop for a moment and to be honest, like really honest with ourselves and with those around us and to say, you know, like, I've not really been honest, you know? There's gonna unleash so much stuff. I wanna go back a step though, because in order to be honest, you have to even realize it's a thing.
And I think so many of us don't realize it's a thing. So coming back to the system, the system teaches you from an early age, that the right thing to do is to support others. And so many women are in support roles and they're called support roles. And what we've realised during coronavirus is there's nothing bloody support about being in healthcare or being in education. They are not support roles, they are the roles.
And so we're taught this certain way and we're taught unconsciously, consciously, however you want to…

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bloody define it. I'm sick of all of the reasons why. The thing is, it is a thing. We're taught that sacrifice is the way to go. We're taught that you shouldn't put yourself first, that it's a selfish act. We're taught to be good girls. We're taught not to rock the boat. We're taught not to be angry. If men are angry, then they're passionate and assertive. And if women are angry, you're carted off.
She's an angry woman. And I don't think that many, many women really think about it until you stop and maybe you listen to something like this or you meet somebody else who said, it's not okay. Because I think it's amazing how we can adapt. We can adapt and we are designed to adapt. So if we're in an abusive relationship, we adapt to it. If we're in a toxic workplace, we adapt to it.
If we are not allowed to go out and we're in lockdown because of coronavirus, we adapt. It's amazing how we adapt. It's a fantastic skill how we adapt. And we don't really realize how much we've adapted and how much we have maybe even lost ourselves until someone says, you know, maybe it's not okay. You don't have to live like that. Here's an example of someone who's done it differently to you. You can have a job.
You can earn your own living. You can have a bank account. You can follow your own dreams. And I think a lot of us don't even, oh, oh, oh, I never really had even, I think there might be a step before that. I hadn't even thought about that. Because when you start thinking about it, It's pretty terrifying because you're on the boat and someone says you know what? I know that it's a bit scary very scary and dark in those waters down there But actually when you dive deep down and you see all the beauty of it.
There's so much beauty There's so there's so much possibility You haven't even if I ask you to set your goals or do a bloody vision board or Everest You wouldn't even be able to do that because you cannot even fathom what is even possible for you. You can't even fathom it. And I think when we open up that door, I mean, that is a tricky place to be when you open up that door because you suddenly start questioning everything.
And I think women right now are questioning everything. Everything that was motherhood, parenthood, being a businesswoman, having your own business, following your own thing, working, not working, aging, health, like every area right now is being completely challenged. If someone's, someone is putting a pin in the balloon and it is bursting and I'm excited about it. I mean, I'm angry about it, but I was so bloody excited. I think this is going to be so fantastic.
Finally, finally, like a whole, revolution or evolution, whatever you want to say. A lot of people don't like the word revolution. I think it's aggressive, but you know, I think there's a whole evolution happening here in front of our very eyes, Britta, like we're going to live for this and we are going to be able to have this in our life. I think you and I always thought we wouldn't have this in our lifetime, right?
But here we are, you just turned 50. I maybe said 40 then you just turned 50. I'm about to turn 50. Don't you think? I feel it's coming, finally. I do. And I also know a lot of other women who feel the same. And that is the key, right? That's what I think. And I know you and I have spoken about this before. Because the different system is definitely going to be one that is more collective and that is not going to have a few men making all the decisions.
That much is clear. All the rest, like you say, we don't even know because I feel like I'm halfway in the water at the moment. That's exactly how I feel. And I'm excited, so excited to explore what there is, right? And so like you say, I couldn't do a vision board now. So for me, the big thing at the moment is to be super cognizant of the fact that I don't know, but in that I can find certainty, right?
And that I can just think, okay, I don't know, but there are some things that I do know, and I do know how I feel, and I do know I wanna do the next 50 years differently. And I do know that there are some young women who are fired up, who are actually not bound by the shackles. They're not actually in the back of the boat. Some of them are already in the water.
And they're like shouting, guys, you know, wake up. And you know, my daughter has one of them. 100%. 100%. which you know is scary can be scary because you're like oh shit I'm not ready you know I'm not ready to jump fully and she's like come on what are you and then you're like oh my god but I'm the mother you know what's happening and so like you say everything kind of just changes and what does that even mean that I'm the mother no I'm not the mother I've played the role of a mother and what a wonderful role it is you know what a privilege but I am Brita you know that's who I am and so I can jump in the boat as you know in the water as Brita

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And anyway, it's just to kind of say that I agree with you and that is what I'm sensing. And this is about sensing, isn't it? It's not necessarily intellectually thinking because the system has taught us how to intellectually think. And so that's harder. But the sensing, the kind of intuition absolutely is telling me this is an incredible moment. I mean, I feel it in my body. I don't know if you, Sam, but my body is like over the last few months, oh my God, literally, I'm like, okay, okay, fine, I'm hearing you.
I mean, and it's not, and I know I'm probably soon gonna get into menopause, but I know I'm not yet. And yet every so often when I find myself in these mindsets stuck, then my body starts either aching really badly in the back or I start having sweat or like all my chest is starting to go. and every time I stop this these negative mental you know where I'm stuck and I breathe and I say okay body right what are you trying to tell me and then it comes up and like you know it's ready you're transforming let go come on jump into the water and then my body is all hunky-dory and lovely no sweats no chest pains you know literally do you have that Oh my God, you're going to be again, I had so many reasons to dislike you.
And you're going to be one of those women who, yeah, I had menopause for about a minute and then it went, I connected with it and it just disappeared. So yeah, I wonder, there's so many reasons to love you, but there are so many reasons to not like you. I'm just making sure the balance is high. No, I've been having menopause and I think it's the menopause for about four years and I literally the last couple of months have got through it and I would say get through it because it was hell on earth.
I mean every woman is different so don't be freaking out like this is gonna happen to me but I think that your point about the body is really really important. I mean during that four years I have really learn how to listen to my body and my body telling me, I'm not happy. Here's all the reasons I'm not happy. I'm going to express it in different areas of your body. And if you don't listen, which I didn't for the longest time, if you don't listen, I'm just going to keep giving you these different things.
And I do think it's important, very important. We don't listen to our bodies. We don't get educated as women again, another part of the system. We don't get educated about menopause at all. If we have a mother still living, then a mother may give us her perspective, which is a very old perspective by now. And if we don't, we just kind of struggle through it. So I just literally thought I was losing my mind.
And then I realized this is what it is, but to be now through it or almost through it, I feel very different. I feel very like… i mean i didn't you know me like i don't really give a fuck before right but now i'm like i'm telling somebody i was telling a friend of mine i'm doing a podcast and it's all about sort of unscripted and everything's stripped down like with just raw conversations and yeah and i don't really you know i don't give a fuck what people say i just really want us to express ourselves and she was laughing she was like what even more than before like like that was already a thing for you but it's something that I'm always working on.
And for me, it relates to authenticity, which is, I know that a word that you and I have used many, many times over the years. Can I, and it's a great experiment, can I be okay with completely expressing my truth? And if my truth isn't expressed how somebody doesn't, you know, how somebody else wouldn't do it, am I still okay with that? You know, I think there's a big argument, the old argument I would say, you have to really communicate in the way that other people will hear your message.
I think that's all just complete bullshit now. I mean, it never really worked in the first place. I don't know how it's going to work now. Like if someone's a data person, give them data. If someone's a story person, give them a story. Like, okay, you know, and I used to advocate some of that stuff, but right now I think we need blunt. impolite messaging. And it can be said with love.
It can be sent with good intention. It can be said with generosity. It can be said in a spirit of this is where I'm at. I want to hear where you're at so that we can come together, which is what you said earlier, but we need much more blunt messaging because we don't have the time anymore to be so, so diplomatic. And I just think this is going to be really

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releasing because so much energy and so much time and so much angst is spent on worrying about what people will think, how will I… be perceived? How will I land with people? Am I getting my message across? Now the thing is when you're on the boat, that's pretty important stuff because the people at the front of the boat, they're like, I can't hear you. Can you express in a data factual way because I'm a blue, red, orange person or whatever the heck it is and I need that.
But when you're at the back of the boat or more importantly, when you're half off the boat or you're in the water with your great people, because the only people that are going to jump in the water with you are your people. You don't need to present a business case to your people. Your people are going to be like, oh, thank God, one, two, three, hold hands, in we go. They don't need that.
They want you to be frank and open and honest, to your point about honest, and you're going to have so much fun in the water, so much fun because you're with your fellow minded people. And I really want to advocate this right now. I always used to be like, you know, if you like your job and it's working out well for you, then stay, try and convince the people to change who they are.
And if you're the leader of an organization, well, I'm so over it now. I'm like, get off, get out, recreate the system. The system isn't working. Go start a business with some other women. go start a not-for-profit, go do a social business, which my favorite thing is, you know, the most important thing I think ever to do in the world right now. Go do something, go be an activist, go follow your dreams, go with your people.
Don't stay on the boat. The boat is sinking. Governments are sinking, countries are sinking, organizations are sinking. I don't want to be on a sinking ship anymore. I'm so I'm so over it. I think, you know, this term grassroots, everything starts at grassroots. This is more important than ever now, isn't it? I mean, if all of us women, I mean, all of us like-minded people, and we're particularly talking about women here, if women en masse, this is what I've been talking about in a lot of my other conversations, if women en masse were unleashed in the way that we're talking about.
And it happened quickly. And when I say quickly, it happened over the next months, few years. We were able to encourage and inspire women en masse, let go of it, jump, we're with you. Then the world would be dramatically better. And I would love to be able to prove that point because it's already been proven, isn't it? Like we're already seeing, wow, look at the prime minister of New Zealand. Look how she's handling things, that's amazing.
Look at this woman, look at that. Finally, we're starting to see these kinds of things. But we don't hear about your next door neighbor and the woman in Rwanda or the woman in Chicago that's trying to do the things that she's doing. We don't hear about you. We hear about the political leaders that are in the… the spotlight i still think it's a good thing because finally we're hearing like empathy is important finally okay oh really you suddenly realized how interesting i think that it could this sort of on mass grassroots new women's movement if you like could be really really phenomenal and it's already happening to your point about your daughter about my daughter i think that they're they're really interesting they're not as encumbered by the things that we were or are.
And that's terrific. It's terrific. I mean, this is what we have been trying to do with, you know, I think if a lot of other women look to us and they say, oh, you know, Dr. Sam Collins, look at all the work you've done. It's amazing. You know, you should really be thinking about retiring. Mr. Fernando Schmidt, wow, you're amazing. You've been working for this charity. You've been doing all this all your years.
Well done. You know, don't think I would say it like that. Well done. It's amazing things. It's not enough. It's never enough. Exactly. It's never going to be enough. The pace has been too slow. But things are changing. I think things are changing. I'm very excited about it. And there are also examples and I often talk about the women in Liberia who on those after 30 years of war on both sides decided that enough was enough and they decided to down their tools and what that meant is that they were dressing in white and would sit on the street and they wouldn't cook and they wouldn't look after the children and they wouldn't have sex with their husbands and they would just down the tour until

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peace would be forced, forcing men to talk peace, right? And what I take from that example, and there are many examples like that, some at national level, some at community level, some at tribal levels, that we are more powerful than we think. That is for sure. Are we ready to own our power? And that is one of the biggest things that I have learned in working with you is owning your power.
And that's a never-ending journey, obviously. And the urgency that you're describing, I sense too. And so it's more urgent that we own our power. So let's not worry so much about refining it, right, is what I'm hearing. Let's go. Let's go. Let's get some things wrong. That's okay. It's better to get some things wrong than be stagnant or be kind of slow. And you know, I love… I love what you said about the bluntness, because that is, that's a big one, right?
That's a big one, because we've been taught, yeah, actually, you know, some power is good. No, definitely. Just use your power carefully. You know, so you don't offend people, you know, so just like little by little, it's like, no, no, you know, go, go, offend, be blunt, boom, go. And, you know, I was reading, I was listening to podcasts the other day and there was this amazing guy, Michael Mead, and he talked about authenticity.
And he described the Greek root of the word is author and enticos, which is essence. you're the author of your essence, right? Which I just love that so much, because sometimes when you talk about authenticity, it's like, oh, just be you, you know? And it's like, yeah, what does that mean? It's like, just be you. But be the author, which is like agency, you get to the side of your essence, which is your power.
That's an activist kind of definition of authenticity, right? I mean, that's like you're creating change kind of authenticity, but you can do it with love. I love that when you said that, Sam, because I can buy into that because I don't want to do it with violence and I don't want to do it with an intent to hurt. No, I want to be blunt and powerful with love. So my intention is always to create more love and more connection and more possibilities for all of us, right?
Yeah, I only really said that because I knew I was talking to you. I just like being blunt right now. No, I do have to remember the balancing of the love to it. Of course, of course, of course, of course. Of course, of course, of course. Of course, of course. I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding with you. I think it speaks to, it speaks to collective. It speaks to collective, right? Because I was thinking about the women in Liberia and I did not know that story.
And I love it when I hear stories like that because doing that anywhere is tough, but doing that in somewhere like Liberia, I think is even tougher. And I was thinking to myself, if one woman had said, okay, I'm gonna dress in white, I'm gonna refuse to have sex with my husband, I'm not doing any housework, I'm not taking the care of the kids, and she sat in the road, she would be carted off extremely quickly, and we may never see that woman again.
Now, the fact that it was a collective action is the power here and so many of us are individually going on with our lives we think and it's very valid to think it's very normal to think it we're in our own little worlds and our own little worlds are complex and they're busy and they're stressful and they're exciting and they're happy and they're hopeful and they're optimistic and they're scary and all of those things we're in our own little lives every day and we think i'm the only one I'm the only one that thinks like this.
I'm the only one that feels like this. We kind of know logically that we're not the only one, that there are many others like it, but we might not have contact with others or our friends may or may not validate how we feel. And I think that when we start to hear these stories, when we start to be inspired by other women, it might not be that you have to be, and it's difficult right now, of course, sort of face to face in that kind of situation with another woman or other women, but it's that, you know that it's happening.
I think when I tap into that and I can see all over the globe, these mini and major movements for change, it's really inspiring. And it kind of makes me feel like, wow, if they can do that, then maybe I can, do my thing. Maybe I can speak up more. Maybe I could be braver. Maybe I can follow the things that I really want to do. And there's always space for that, isn't there?
There's always space for more. Just when you think, okay, I'm happy. I'm doing the things I want. There's more that we can do. And I was thinking about you using the term activists during this call. And I do think there's a judgment that comes with that. Like to be an activist, you have to be, working, you know, not for profit maybe, or you need to be part of a group, a community group perhaps that is dedicated to those courses.
And of course that's absolutely the case, but can't we all be activists? I think that's what's changing now. Like it's everybody needs to be part of this. You shouldn't feel like, oh, I'm not an activist or, oh, I'm too busy or I don't know, I could never…

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speak at the UN. I mean, we could all do that, can't we? I mean that's got to change. No, because this is the other thing that we do to each other, right? We invent these terms and then we somehow put them on the label on a box that is very exclusive and only certain people are allowed in that box. And that's obviously, that's just like human made. That's not really true. And I, in fact, just yesterday I did an IGTV where I talked about one of my firm beliefs is that we are all activists because what does it mean to be an activist? means that you look around your environment, you see something you don't like, and you go out and change it.
That can be that you no longer want to buy plastic bottles. It can literally, it doesn't matter. It's just about taking action to change something. you know, no longer want to be part of. And so that can be really tiny, can be medium, can be small, it can be big, it can be, it doesn't really matter. But the problem is, you know, we have this, this, this, um, phenomenon of learned helplessness, right?
Martin Zeligman. We've learned to be helpless. And this goes back to what you said about that, you know, they're the people in the front of the boat. They are in control. They clearly deserve to be in control because otherwise they wouldn't be in control. And I'm not in control. And so, you know, I'm helpless. So we learn to be helpless. But if we start to question that whole system and we realize that's bullshit, really, and that we all have power, because we all do, and we just need to change our mindset.
And so being an activist is a question of a mindset. It's a philosophy for life. It's like, OK, I don't like something. I'm going to change it. And that's why it never ends. And you're absolutely right, Sam. It never ends because there's always going to be something that is worth changing. Identify the thing you want to change and go and do it, right? put the toe in the water, jump in the water.
I'm with you, right? We're together. I want to talk a little bit about fear before we finish up here. Before we do that though, one thought that just came to me about the boat as well, and I love we keep coming back to this boat, but I think this boat has sort of this plastic cover over the top of it with this shield, so you don't really know what's going on outside of the boat.
But it's not, it's actually, because the thing is, exactly, but it's not that you don't know what's going on. No, no, it's really scary out there. Yes, yes. We've all been conned so big time, haven't we? So when you find out what's going on outside the boat, like you gave me this example of these women in Liberia, you realize, oh, maybe it's not so scary out there. And I think that so many of these I just want to talk about fear for a second here, because when we have our fears, and I even say our fears, I've got my fears, oh, they're very different to your fears, but these are mine, I own these fears, I've had these fears for a long time, I've nurtured them, they're with me.
I'm wondering if there's such a thing as collective fear and particularly around women. So is it that they are really our own? or is it that they have been sort of programmed into us and then we have to do this whole there's so much stuff isn't there like feel the fear and do it anyway overcome your fears but i'm wondering if fear is actually a power source you know like anger we talked about anger being a power source could fear be a power source as well um i absolutely think so because what i have learned you can um you feel fear And I see it as a signpost, as a signpost that I can now take a decision.
I can let that fear consume me and paralyze me, or I can let that fear allow me to choose my fears and go forward. That fear doesn't leave you necessarily, but you go with it. You take the fear with you maybe, but you're still moving. You're still following your instincts and And I think that's a different way of looking at it, but I love what you said about collective fear and collective fears, because I've been thinking about this a lot, that we are connected 100% all the time.
And this idea that my fear is my fear and you don't understand my fear and no one understands my fear is not serving us. And it's part of the system that keeps us in our place. And that when we tap into our collective fears, our collective anger, but also our collective power, then something shifts phenomenally. And the fear that we fear as women is not just a fear that is based on our own lived experience.
It's one that we have inherited because we are dealing with centuries

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of persecutions, of violence, of women being burned at a stake because they're called witches. And we know that trauma is passed on to generations unless you manage to lift it up and heal it before you have children. And maybe that's for some people who are listening thinking, well, that's a bit like far out there. The fact is that we, even if it's not genetically, which I know it is because epigenetics shows you that, there's still memory.
You grow up with the stories of the persecution of the women and what women have gone through. So there is a collective trauma and collective pain and therefore fear. So when it sometimes feels overwhelming, it's no wonder. Because you're not just dealing with your own fear, you're dealing with a collective fear. So if you can come together, that's why it's easier when you come together. And I see this in the work with Women From International.
That's why we bring women together. And then they realize suddenly, okay, they're not the only ones who've experienced violence. They're not the only ones who are scared and traumatized. And that lifts the burden. I really like this word fierce. I do very, very much. And I know that's a big word for you. And that's what you were writing about. That's your book you're releasing. And turning, when I talk about turning fear into power, you use the word fierce instead.
And I think it's a much more appropriate word and a word that's much more palatable. I want to be fierce. I want to be able to have that sort of lioness. about me. Lionesses are incredibly fierce, but also incredibly protective of their young and of their cubs and of what's important. They're the hunters and they hunt together. They don't hunt alone. So I love that when I think of fierce, I think of Brita the lioness.
That's what comes to my mind. It really does. I think there's going to be a lot of firsts happening. I really do. There's going to be a lot of pioneering happening and that's not always the easiest place to be but it doesn't need to be alone. I was talking to a woman recently who's speaking at our event coming up who is from Nigeria and she left a marriage, she got divorced from her marriage in Nigeria and I mean it really wasn't the thing to do and her whole family doesn't speak to her anymore and she But she did it.
She did it. And I imagine that there's women the world over that would like to get divorced but don't for all sorts of reasons. But this one was actually quite dramatic. Like her life was at risk. She had to leave the country. No one speaks to her anymore. She's the happiest she's ever been. She applied for a scholarship in the UK and she got the scholarship and then she didn't have the money to get the flight to the UK.
So she wrote to everyone, including like the governor of her state. ask them for the money. Where did this come from? She didn't have somebody sort of patting her on the back, oh you know what, you know what would be really great is if you could apply for a scholarship and she just you know she did it and I think these women are our trailblazers right now. They are our pioneers, they are our role models, they are They are everything.
And these are the women that need to have more voice. And I know that's the work that you do and it's the work that I do. And I'm so glad that we know each other and that we're both turning 50 and that we don't, or we give much less of a fuck than we did. And it's going to be so much more blunt. Me too, Sam. Me too. Angry. Absolutely. And thank you so much.
That story is just… That just reminds me always why I'm so passionate about sharing stories, because inspiration is for me, anger can be our view and fear can be our view, but inspiration is the biggest powerful fuel there is out there. Not a question. If I hear a story like that, I'm like, okay, what am I gonna do now? You know, it's like… Yeah, yeah, I could do anything. You know, before you go, when you were giving me the definition of authenticity right now, and I want to give you a definition of inspiration.
I may have shared this before with you, that one of the definitions of inspiration is to breathe life into. And I always kind of knew that, and I was reminded of it again recently when we were having so much problems with breathing and the breath and coronavirus and… all of the, I can't breathe, black lives matter, everything seems to be in his focus heavily on breath. And I was reminded that inspiration does breathe life into people.
And if we can get that kind of inspiration and know that we're not alone and know that I love, I love, love what you say. Cause I'm the person that will be like, we're jumping, come on. Come on, hold on to me, we're jumping. I can take five people on my back, we're jumping. And trust me, we're jumping. And then we jump, even if they're screaming and kicking, we're jumping together. Whereas I love what you said about put a toe in.
I think that's absolutely brilliant. Put a toe in. Do a little something. Google search something today that you've all wanted to find out about. That's how I found you, right? Remember?

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Right, exactly. Saw a CNN report, got very bothered by it, googled the report and found Women for Women International and hit the contact us page. And here we are years later doing what we're doing. I put my toe in. It's always, exactly. It's always, yeah, exactly. And sometimes people jump and that's amazing, but you know, just take, just do the one thing, just do the one thing. that you can do and can be small.
And sometimes it depends on the thing too, doesn't it? Like some things I can jump, other things I'm thinking I couldn't jump, I'd have to put my toe in. So it depends on what it is too, which is very reasonable and normal as well. Well, Britta, Fernanda Schmidt, woman of the world, 50 year old without menopause, you're the best. Sam, thank you so much. I love you. Love you too, baby. Bye.
And she would only say something that she completely and utterly believed in. And there's not many people that I know like that in the world, and there should be more. And so it's phenomenal to see her as my colleague and friend and companion in the back of the boat. And we're in the back of the boat together, and she's the one. I'm the one saying, come on, let's get off the boat, and jumping off the edge.
And she's the one that's leaping with me. And at the same time, with Britta and with me as well, perhaps, she's got thousands of women who are leaping with her. And that's really something right now. That's really something right now.

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