From Small Acorns

So just for context, we met, what, last week? I mean, we didn't, I feel like I've known you in forever, somehow. I feel like I've known you in many lives, potentially. We were probably trying to do something a few hundred years ago. And we're already going to do an event together that's coming up. It's part of the Rebellious Book Tour. You've got this 10th, I think they said wedding. 10th anniversary, kind of like a wedding.
All right, big commitments involved. And so I wanted to bring you on the podcast because this podcast is passion of mine. It's called Stripped Back. So it's really just all about amazing change-making women like you really trying to understand what makes you tick, who you are, a little bit about the story. Well, a lot about the story actually, but also about where you're heading and what you're doing and what makes you you.
Because as I said to you when we met, a lot of women or a lot of people in general would have been completely crushed by what happened to you. But no, not you. You've done what you've done and you've done some really phenomenal things and continue to do so. And you do it with such a great… energy about you just really seemed like a really good nice person who I think if and I hope we get to do it one day you know just sit down have a glass of wine or four Bit of a laugh about life.
So… Bottles, Sam, bottles. Oh, yeah. What's she talking about? It's sort of a frown on your face. What's she talking about? Glasses. Three or four bottles of wine. By the way. I'd love to have three or four bottles of wine. I've done that in a really long time. Really long time. You know, you just have enough time to sink into having that much. God, dear, probably my body would be like, what are you doing?
You're a bit old for all this now. I'm sure like you, it's just always on to the next project. You know, there's never a right time to take a holiday or anything like that. So and I'm sure you you get that with obviously all your incredible work. So and I have to say, I am loving the hair. I wish I was going to go to red, you know, where the people at the podcast won't be able to see it.
But yeah, this is I went to blonde, I don't know, a few months ago because I thought, 51, I'm going to see if I could rock blonde. And so I did it and I was very happy with it. And it's very interesting because lots of people, especially like my friends, our community, like, wow, you look amazing. My husband and my kids basically had a riot and did an intervention and sat me down and said, it's just, we can't cope.
They want the red head back. Yeah, and they're like, this is you. And because, maybe a bit like you, I don't know, I hate to be told what to do. So I'm like, no, I'm staying blonde, like you, I don't care if you like it or you don't. But then yeah, I decided, no, I do feel like this is more my authentic self. Yeah, honestly, it really suits you. And I don't know what you, it knocked years off you.
And I don't know whether that's because I saw you at 6am the last time. Probably because you saw me and yeah, I looked like complete crap. And also I was dealing with so much stuff to do with like kids and mental health breakdowns and the rest of it. So it was a bit of an intense day. So it was lovely to speak to you. Cause I felt like, Oh God, she understands me.
But tell me, well, I mean, I want to hear it again. Like what, what made you

start this charity and tell us the story. So my son Harry was diagnosed with a brain tumour like everybody else going through cancer you know went through his treatment and but it was during that time that he was his chemotherapy didn't work they he was supposed to have it for 18 months they stopped it after three his body wasn't coping with it and it hadn't worked at all so they then gave him radiotherapy and it's when he was having this treatment where he had to go to an adult hospital that he met a gentleman called Robert Harley who was a 55 year old businessman who also had a brain tumour and when they were having treatments Harry used to crack jokes with him and say you know Robert I'm keeping the bed warm for you because he had to get on next and Harry was just really you could see that Harry really looked up to this guy and wanted to get to know him so he did and a really unlikely friendship formed you know Harry at the time he was nine sorry he was seven at the time and they stayed in touch and on the last day of treatment they all had to go to the hospital for five days a week for six weeks So they got to know each other, got chatting.
And on the last day, Harry said, Mum, I want to go in with gifts for everybody, because everybody's poorly like me with brain tumours. And I just want to wish them the best. So we sent, wrote them a little handmade card, a little angel on a key ring. And Robert was really touched. And then they stayed in touch. And when Harry heard that his friend Robert, they kept in touch by the phone was poorly several months later, he insisted on going to see him.
And I said, Harry, you know, this might not be the right idea. I mean, I think kids have an amazing ability when they're going through such an illness. They mature. And he tugged at me and he said, Mum, if I was poorly like Robert is now, you wouldn't want people not to come to hospital because I am, you know, because of their feelings. So, and I said, you know what, you're right.
And he went. And he came away. He was obviously a little bit sad. But he said, Mum, I've got to do something. I've got to make Robert better. He said there's not enough being done for people with cancer. And he started making bracelets. And then it was actually through, you know, Harry was good then for three years, but it was through that journey. And the way that cancer affected our routine, our lifestyle, our relationships and communication. people that you think would be there to support, both in terms of public health systems and all of that, it just didn't seem to be there when you're away from hospital.
So sadly, when we lost Harry, you know, he was only 11 when he died, he raised £750,000 in the last two years of his life, which, you know, council estate boy doesn't come, you know, we haven't got money as a family, or he didn't go to a private school. it just made me think he's left this amazing legacy I was left very quite frustrated and angry not just because we'd lost Harry but also because of the lack of support and I thought right what am I going to do I've got two options here do I either channel our local government who are not going to listen to little old me from Sheldon in Birmingham or

I mean, to have gone through what you went through. Yeah. Is unbearable. Yes. Nobody. Even my worst enemy should never have to go through something like that. Yeah. And so I really want to as much as I mean, Harry sounds fabulous, right? Sounds like such a fabulous, fabulous, fabulous kid. And what a legacy. Yeah. What about you? you know like for you as a mum to have to go through that and I think this is one of the things I see a lot like understandably everyone is totally focused on the kid and rightly so but then there's then there's the mum or the parents and the other people around that are sort of putting on this strong face yeah and dealing what you had to deal with and I mean bloody hell Georgie that couldn't have been easy I was about to say it wasn't.
It isn't. You know, even ten years on, and I think when you go through such a traumatic time, like, you know, losing a child, it's something that lives with you forever. And I think it's the time when, you know, time becomes irrelevant. No matter how much time passes, it still feels to me like yesterday that I lost Harry. Yes, the cries aren't as spontaneous, but Harry has a brother and a sister, and that's what I clung onto, because if they weren't here, would I be here?
I honestly don't know, because it is the hardest. I still feel like inside, I just feel like my inside's black, very dark. but you know I've not laughed the same and yes we carry on with life and you know you do think you know you have to but we were exceptionally close you know not because of hospital we were always together Harry was always in London delivering talks you know so we were away together and just his campaign work so And we were actually very, very good friends as well.
So there is still to this day an immense loss. And like you said, you know, he's very cheeky, very witty. So I can't remember laughing the way that I did when Harry was here. So yes, 10 years on, there's this, you know, immense loss for Harry. But my way of coping, my way of getting through it every day through, you know, I… you can probably say I can feel it when somebody asked me about Harry's work I feel a light switch on inside of me like I have this radiant glow and I know that my eyes light up and my face beams you know but that's because I'm talking about how proud I am of him and his work what he started I'm not talking about the raw, real stuff you know as a mum but I just thought

I've got two options. I can sit and crumble. But it broke my heart, too, to, you know… This, for me, what we do today, is not just about Harry. It's actually about the siblings, when the… You know, not just cancer, but any life-changing illness that any family go through, to watch what Harry's brother and sister went through when they were going through the GCSEs, their A-levels being… passed from pillar to post because I was permanently at hospital.
To see that and actually I always say that they went through more than what Harry ever did. Now that might sound bizarre to some of your listeners but you know what they saw their little brother have to go through at the end and the loss and the change you know they didn't just lose for a time they didn't just lose Harry when he was permanently in hospital they lost their mum too.
You know, and what you said about being a mum, the point is, yes, I've lost Harry, but I am still a mum. You know, I'm still a mum to Louis and Danny and then cancer can never take away the fact that I will always be Harry's mum. You know, so to continue with his work is all that I can do for Harry now. And it's all that I can do to make sure that other siblings have the support that we wish were there for Harry's brother and sister.
I feel like it's a sort of drop the mic moment where we don't really need to do any more because it's just I think lots of people are going to really resonate with it especially if you've been through something like that but I think the point that I'm hearing and I think it's so important is that we don't always concentrate on those around and there isn't always a support out there for the siblings and for the parents, or if there is, it's a different type of support than perhaps what's needed.
So I'm really hearing how this is a sort of legacy, not sort of, this is a legacy journey for you. This is a healing journey for you. It's something that, and I, you know, I get it. I lost my mum very suddenly, talked about that. I lost my mum to suicide. I know you lost your mum to mental health. Yeah, for years. Probably for the first, I would say, 15 years of Aspire.
It was all about that. It was all about healing. It was all about helping women so they didn't have to go through similar things. It was all about sort of trying to almost do what I couldn't do for my mum. with all the women that were part of Aspire. And then I just sort of had this moment about 15 years where I said, okay, I think I've, I think I've paid my debt.
I think I've grieved my grief and now I'm just going to bloody enjoy this. But it took a good 15 years. You know, it's been 21 years now. It took a good 15 years to get to that point. So I get what you're doing and you know, you just seem to have such a drive

to want to do more and be more. But one of the things I really noticed about you, perhaps that is different to maybe some of the other people that I've met sometimes that run charities, is you do it with such joy. You really seem to be enjoying yourself and connecting with people and getting things done through this joy. would seem a strange thing to be experiencing joy whilst running a cancer charity.
So where does this joy come from? The joy for me is from seeing people walk through our door at the Drop-in Cancer Centre, you know, their expressions and how they are and their body, you know, and it takes me right back to that time that we were going through it with H. and to see how they leave our building, you know, that's what I get from that and that's not down to me personally, you know, I've obviously got a team of qualified therapists, you know, I'm not a therapist or a housing officer or anything like that, you know, I'm really just a facilitator, I've created this building, I'm just a mum, you know, but us mums are fabulous and to see how they leave, that's what I get from it.
And don't get me wrong, sometimes I say, how am I running a cancer charity today? I'm roller skating for 22 hours. You know, the next minute I'm at a corporate event that I have to speak at, you know, or I'm with a bucket, you know, at the local football club. So there's such a variety and it's that what gives me the joy, you know, it's seeing how it's seeing an idea evolve.
And if I'm honest, like, you know, I was a single child growing up. and we've talked about my mum. You know I left home when I was 18 because my mum had suffered with mental health issues for many of my teenage years. It developed into alcohol issues and severe depression. I left home and then had a lot of sort of failed relationships and I never felt a sense of self-worth and you know, and that I could achieve anything amazing.
It was like every time something good happened, 20 bad things happened, you know, and then you start believing it that in yourself, you know, you become a victim, you know, the longer that you think about all the negative stuff, you can actually start your own downward spiral. And I was just adamant that what I saw happen to my mum, I wasn't going to let that happen to me.

So I just wake up and focus every day on the positives and I try not to think too much, you know, I'm, my diary's always packed out, I'm busy, I bounce, that's what I love, you know. You know, I'm hearing a few times you've said like, you said stuff like, I'm not the sharpest on the block, you know, I'm just this or I'm just a mum, I'm only a facilitator. And I don't think any of that's true, actually.
I think you might be doing a great job of telling yourself that you're just this or just that, but I want to tell you that you're extraordinary. And I want to tell you that this is not usual to do what you've done to the extent that you're doing it and to do it with such joy, to do it without public funding. to be getting all of this help and support that you get and for people to really want to help you they're doing it I think not just because of Harry or because of the story because that is incredibly compelling yeah I think they're doing it because of you oh thank you and you know you've got this energy about you and this joy about you and this very down to earthness relatability about you, but it's not usual.
It's not typical. All right. So, and you know, this is what I do for a living. So I can say it with some level of credibility. I know what I'm talking about. Cause I know extraordinary when I see it. All right. And I know extraordinary when I hear it. And, and I talk to many, many people who have got a story of adversity. and then they end up doing something that helps others.
That's a big theme of actually the book, Rebellious, and I interviewed those amazing women and want to come to your cancer center and share some of that. But what I noticed though is something, what's the magic? What's the piece in there that really stands out? And for me, it is your way of being, your energy, your joy. And I get that there's a lot, lot, lot going on behind the eyes there.
I get that. Yeah. But how you approach this, I think is really, really wonderful. You know, and it doesn't make you feel, I don't know, like sometimes you can feel a bit like with charities, you can feel quite sad and understandably, and you feel so pulled and sad by the story that, you know, you want to donate and you want to be part of it. But with you, I don't feel sad about Harry's story.
Yeah. Is that weird? Like, I don't feel sad about it at all. I'm like, this is, yes, I can't imagine. I mean, I've got my, I've got sons of my own. I can't, I even thought of it, it starts to make me feel like I'm going to well up. Right. But, and it's the every ultimate fear, isn't it? Like every time we even go for just doctors with my kids, I'm like, don't tell me any, you know, like, you just never know.
Right. So I can't even, I can't even go there, but I,

Don't feel sad listening to a story. I feel really hopeful. I feel really optimistic. I feel quite pragmatic, like this stuff that you're doing here. And I really see, even from a business perspective, if this makes sense, that you're fulfilling a need that isn't really out there. Tell us about that. Like the, where you feel like there was a bit of a gap in, if you want to call it like a gap in the market that you're offering.
And what is, what makes your organisation Help Harry Help Others? What makes it different to maybe other charities or cancer charities out there? I suppose for me, it's about, we support, it's the mental wellbeing of cancer patients and their families. So when I, you know, having a bad day, really stressed, worried, you know, and even though my family is close. those fears that enter your head is, you know, we only knew at the very end that Harry was going to die.
We didn't know, you know, we'd had all positivity all the way through and with him, it's almost like we lost him in a car crash because he went down for surgery and didn't wake up. He was in a coma for three months. So he didn't deteriorate like most people. But throughout that whole journey, you know, I had to give up work and… as i said we're only an average you know working class family but we'd got two cars on the drive holidays to europe every year the kids didn't want for anything you know it was nothing special to us it was because we'd obviously worked hard and what we'd got we loved but all of that was taken away because the very next month having to give up work to become harry's carer i couldn't pay my mortgage and all the sort of public bodies and things that I was referred to via the hospital that you think has, you know, that support for not for somebody to give me a house, but just to give me advice and information.
All I got was I was being passed from pillar to post. Oh, it's not us, try them. It's not us, try them. But all that was, you know, it was time, mainly, and all that precious time was time that I could have spent with my son and his brother and sister. you know it was everything was a waiting time a referral process a postcode lottery and i never got anywhere you know and i think at that time at the lowest of my low it actually made me make some decisions that i probably wouldn't have made with clarity so for me you know the the energy and the drive i've got is because i just genuinely don't want anybody to feel how I feel still to this day as a mum from losing my son I can't control the outcomes but for me we bridge the gap between hospital and hospice because all the non-pretty stuff the housing issues, debt, finance, emotional support you know people can just rock up at our centre and knock the door and come in they don't have to wait to be referred via the hospital they don't need to wait you know in the UK there's

a six to nine month waiting list for people to see a counsellor. You know, not at help Harry. You can come in, you can get emotional support immediately. Within maximum two weeks you have a counselling assessment and you start your therapy the week after. Because for me it's about that immediacy, the urgency, the empathy. And I think that's what's wrong with this world when people need support. It's accessibility. And I think everything just grows too big.
You know, and I never want Help Harry to become too big because we will lose sight of the beautiful thing that we are. You know, and I don't want it to be a corporate monster. You know, that's, you know, somehow the growth has to come through almost franchise operations, where it's run by somebody in their community, you know, that's been affected and it's their passion and their story. and they have the same adrenaline and rush that I do, seeing that somebody will not feel the way that they do, you know?
Because they're giving that help that wasn't there for them. I mean, I'm an entrepreneur, so I look at things from an entrepreneurial perspective. And, you know, that's what you did here. You know, there's a lot of people, and we all do it, where we moan and complain and groan about how bad the system is and how it didn't help us. But it's very few people like you that will then say, okay, what can I do about it?
And then people might still get stopped there by saying, well, what can I do about it? I'm just a mum, or I'm just from this council state, or I don't have the money, or who am I? And I just absolutely love, using the word just a lot, I absolutely love that you did something about it and you created this. And it sort of feels very organic in how you create it. You didn't go for a 50 page business plan to the bank.
It doesn't sound like you started from the ground up with what you had. And now you've got this center in Birmingham. And I feel like lots of people are going to be looking it up and seeing what you're doing. I also really love the vision of having almost like a franchise model. in different places and I think that that really works because when you're doing something from a passion but you're doing it with a strong pragmatic mindset that you've got then you've got this amazing chance it's going to happen and I really hope that people listening will listen to this story and say well if she can do it I can do it absolutely if she can do it it might not be they want to start as a charity it might be completely different

but there's so many seeds of ideas out there that people have or they have this passion they want to do something and they don't do it and they don't follow through and I don't underestimate how many hours and sleepless nights probably you've had about this and probably you still do because I know because I still do after 21 years like are we still going to stay afloat we're trying to do and like my husband's always joking guys and you do the you work he said you're you're equivalent to seven people and I said that's good I mean I don't have six other people I can pay for so it's good that I'm equivalent to seven people but it's it's it's wonderful that you have that that sort of entrepreneurial mindset about things and that you've also got this vision for where you want to sit, because as much as you don't want it to be a sort of corporate job, and I get, I'll get that because who would, but I think also what you've created, the model, what you've created could do really well in other cities or even other countries because it's needed everywhere.
And you, you fulfilling this, this gap, I love what you said. between hospital and hospice and focusing on, on not just the patient, but those around the patient and providing really pragmatic advice and support. And that's the stuff that bothers you at that point. Like, where am I going to do it? How am I going to do this kind of, where, where do I get this medicine from? What do I do next?
You know, how am I going to pay my mortgage, but also having that emotional support because sometimes, you know, I have felt as a parent, I just want to scream sometimes at some of the therapists and say, what about me? Yeah. And then I think, oh, you selfish cow, Sam shut up. Focus on the child. What about me? Nobody asks me. Yeah. How are you Sam? And I think if they did, I'd probably like break apart, but then.
You need, I think to provide that is so, so needed. Yes. Yeah. And so important and so smart of you to realise this. And I, I, I'm not surprised that the whole of Birmingham is lighting up for you. Yeah. Not surprised at all. And we can see the whole, we need to let the whole country know about what you're doing. We need to let the world know about what you're doing. And I want you to really step up and own it.
Like this is you. I mean, I know you're going to speak at our conference in December as well. I can't wait for that because you just, I think people, what, who, who's that again? Georgie who? Georgie, Georgie Moseley. Oh, right. Okay. Because this is, I don't think you know how amazing this is. Do you, do you, do you, I mean, you were just being coy or do you, do you really get what you've done here and what's possible?

evolving for me you know an example you know Harry I go into a lot of schools to share Harry's story so Harry's story even almost 11 years since his passing he still inspires the next generation so I go into schools and we've got a social enterprise where at primary school age we teach children the basics of business. And I can guarantee you every assembly at the end I get a child come up to me.
You know, I tell them about Harry and his bracelets and that he'd come from a family not with much money and, you know, all that he achieved. And they're like, I can't be like Harry. I said, but yes, you can. Harry started by making one beaded bracelet. He didn't set out to be Britain's kindest kid or win these awards, but with hard work, determination, passion. just not giving up whatever your dream is, you know?
And that's the same for me now. When I started the charity in 2012, I didn't open the drop-in centre until 2015. But I always felt inside of me that there was something else, something, another piece that was missing out of the jigsaw to help Harry and our objectives. But I didn't put myself under pressure, you know, to find that. and it was naturally through helping lots of families that I suddenly thought why isn't all this available under one roof because I was running, you know, not moaning about it but I was running around to the pensions office, the housing office for families, mortgage providers and some families I could spend 20 hours a week just trying to give them the support and I thought I'm going to end up letting people down if I don't change things.
And that's where I thought, why is there not a place where everybody can go outside of all the healthcare and your chemo, your bloods and your cancer treatments and everything? I'm not a cancer specialist, but why is there not a building where all the real life changing stuff, whether it's emotionally, practically, financially, there needs to be a place for that, a safe space. that is accessible and, you know, and that's how…
So whilst the idea is there for the franchise, for growth, but retaining who we are, I'm not in any rush. It will happen when the time is right and it feels right. And at the moment it's not because it is very challenging out there, you know, and at the moment we're more about sustainability and keeping us going, you know.

You know, I, I've still got debt from cancer. I don't own my own home. I only drive a car because a local company sponsors the charity. You know, but to me, I measure my success on the people that walk through my door and how many we help. So don't compare yourself to others. Whatever your dream is, keep your head down, keep your focus and don't let other voices tell you or make you just wobble, because they can.
You know, that's where you've got to be strong to not be dictated to by others. Don't conform with the norm. You know, be rebellious like you say in your book, you know, it's about stepping outside and just keeping that focus. And, you know, that was my downfall at the beginning, I felt a bit intimidated because I'm not a cancer specialist, you know, I'm not a counselor, I'm not this, I'm not that, I'm not the other.
And I thought, oh, I bet people think, you know, I'm just a mum playing at it because I've lost my son. I would have never set up a charity if Harry had died without starting this. But I just couldn't waste the beautiful thing he created, the legacy that he'd left, and knowing that that would help other people. You know, and now it's the people that walk through our door in the here and now that my inspiration, it's their voices. that matter today it's their opinions and feedback that help us evolve and adapt to what's needed now because I don't know now I know cancer and the gaps 11 years ago and that's where it's just keeping up with the current trend the current marketplace what's you know so so just keep your vision don't let others sway you is my biggest tip love it Love you.
Best friends forever. And I can't wait to show you around and I'm so looking forward to the book tour and we feel very honoured that you are starting it with us in the UK at Help Harry. Can't wait. Can't wait. I just think it worked out so well, doesn't it? I really believe that. Everything happens for a reason. It's working out really well. So we'll be seeing you very, very soon.

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