Life's Profit and Loss Account

What were you thinking afterwards? What did you do, if anything? So next morning, I was just thinking, okay, I had a really good idea how I would like to go. So I immediately took action. So for me, what is collective courage, right? So literally means being courageous collectively. But I strongly believe that we need that foundation of individual courage. And that collectiveness will build on top of it. And in my opinion, there are a lot more to be done to encourage people to be courageous themselves first.
So that's my focus in the past few weeks. Post your podcast. Do you agree, Robyn? Does it start with individuals? Yeah, I have to if I'm honest, I felt a bit not jaded, but oh my God was like after 30 years in the industry still why we're still having this conversation, right? why is every mentor that I have, why is every skip level conversation, every development chat, it's the same thing. Like what is it that we all know we need courage and that also means courageous conversations at home and at work, right, in order to elevate ourselves and create new levels of opportunity and whatever.
But I came away from it thinking probably something different than intended. I loved your, loved your session by the way. But like why is it, why is it still holding us back? still all the structural societal and organizational stuff or personal self-belief that's still holding us back and it didn't feel like we're getting to the root of the problem like maybe I had a bad week or that impacted me as well but I thought this is the repeatable thing that's happening here why what what else can we do to get underneath what's really going on and make a real difference because like in my mind I feel I'm here to get scale, to do some epic stuff to help, you know, scale a whole lot of people, elevate themselves and create new opportunities.
And we're still getting stuck on the same foundational stuff it felt like to me. Don't need to put a negative on there, you can put that in the middle of your podcast. You know what I love? You're like the rise and fall of music. You're like, it was really great, but it sucked. I felt really bad, but don't worry about it. You know, like, why are we doing this? Why do we keep doing this?
But let's be level about it.

It feels like we're still in women's groups and still men being scared of the women's groups, that kind of stuff. It feels a bit funny. What do you think about all this, Damien? So like a pressure here, like men, we need to be collectively doing this with men. This is impacting men too. What's your view? I think I see it a little bit different or maybe totally understand Robyn's side. I'm a little bit newer, right?
So it's a whole WIMAR. initiative. I've really only joined in the last six or 12 months. I was looking at the re-recording as well the other day of the session, didn't have access to the chat at the time or the comments, but it was interesting for me just to look at and see the engagement, right? The passion you can kind of see as I went to look through the recording and I could see people commenting and people really being passionate about the topics that were being discussed.
But I think to Robyn's point, where we as a society let ourselves down, is what do you do with that, right? So you've got a lot of conversations happening, a lot of people thinking very similar and passionate about very similar topics, and a lot of allies as well along the way. How do you create that movement then to really bring those voices together and enact impactful action off the back of it?
And I think that's the big piece, you know, talking to Robyn and that's all great. That's nice and fuzzy that are kind of being said and we're kind of talking about. But how do you take that next step further? And it's everybody. Everybody's got to come to the table and be behind and supportive of the movements that are happening and support each other, make change. And it's those modern guys like Damien, you know, really passionate about equality and passionate about World of Work as well that we should you know be harnessing and um even at drinks the other day we're saying Damien why aren't we doing more stuff together you know it's awesome why can't we create a movement right yeah absolutely and I think there's also obviously the biases that we've got to overcome right so what's the stereotypes that kind of exist and that was something we were talking about the other night as well if I think about it from the male side of that there has always been that kind of that that traditional piece right where people think okay you've got to be masculine you've got to be strong you've got to be all of these words that kind of get thrown around and people do struggle to even find their emotional side from a male perspective and that's something i certainly don't have a problem with i can tell you i mean just this morning i was shedding a tear with my daughter it was her um she becomes a tweener today she turned 12 wow and she was quite emotional about some of the things that my wife and i had written in the card and she got upset about that but it was a happy emotion.
And so I was the same. And she said to me, oh, you're also crying. And I joked around obviously and said, well, that's actually your tears from your cheek coming on me. But I said, no, I'm equally happy for you. And that's just one example, right, of where we as individuals need to be able to break some of the shackles that exist around these stereotypes, be able to show emotion. That's my point about, you know, individually, we need to be on board first because

When I was younger, I wondered why people don't speak up for themselves, where in some circumstances clearly they should have. And I also wondered why people would be bystanders, where some unfair situation is unfolding right in front of them, or worse, they were part of it. And I was thinking, what's wrong with people? As I'm getting older, I realized you need a lot of courage to be outspoken, to speak your mind. because it's such a taboo to be too opinionated, too outspoken and too aggressive.
I think one of the many reasons could be the fact that people are unfamiliar with the act of openly talk about some of the topics that potentially be uncomfortable to them, right? But if you don't think about these kind of, don't talk about these kind of issues and how do you learn and figure out and find solutions to tackle them, therefore help that impact people to progress. So after this event, my focus was very simple.
I will pick one thing to focus on in the next few weeks. So what I did is that I actually decided to champion, to normalise inclusion and diversity by liking and sharing a lot of posts on LinkedIn on a number of topics that I'm passionate about. For example, female advancements, inspiring stories from the female influencers, the female lead, celebrate senior female leadership in my industry, senior female politicians, championing males, for example, celebrating the companies that supporting parental leave, for example, really sharing insightful analysis on For example, The Economist did a good piece on societies that oppress women are far more likely to be violent and unstable.
I'm also very, very passionate about environment. So sharing valuable analysis we have done by WoodMac, also celebrating the companies that actually taking green initiatives, setting strategic directions, and then from a society level, what kind of green cities and all that coming up? I was counting the other day, I think I shared a list. 50 posts. Each of my posts have about 500 views. So I have reached 25,000 views. Very small amount of them actually reached me and say, hey, this is great.
This is excellent. Some of them repost. So what is the impact of that? I don't know for sure, but I sincerely hoping that it's very, very small things that I'm doing helpful to help

gain momentum for these kind of movements that Damien and Robyn is talking about. And I love the use of LinkedIn there, Malan. We had a situation recently in my work where I had for the first time, I've been pushing for a long time to have a male go on long-term parental leave, right? So I thought I've worked my whole career in Asia and I thought in my career I will never see this happen that a male will take long-term parental leave. and you know eventually a gentleman in my team did take it you know BHP brought a policy and he took it but oh my god it took some nudging you know but we shared that widely on linkedin but the thing we shared was he was so for a man for a woman it's nothing to take parental leave right over the last hundred years we fought for a lot of things to wear pants to control our own fertility to vote and stuff like that so we're used to fighting for stuff and then taking it but as Damien said like for men the offer's not that great, right?
Like, come to work, be strong, be rich, have lots of hair, work till we die, don't show any emotion. Yeah, that's like the world of men. It's not a great place to be in, right? And so this guy in my team was very courageous. He first had to have the courageous conversation with his wife at home who was like, you know, this is going to be the end of your career and this is, you know, think about this carefully, this is going to impact the income for our family and whatever.
But he had missed the birth of his first kid and you know some spending time and he didn't want to miss it for his second kid so he's very firm on that. Then he was sweating bullets when he was you know coming to talk to me as his line leader right and he was like prepared with like all of the here's why I think it's good and here's you know what why I think it should happen and whatever.
And it was a two minute conversation because I said, yeah, that's fine. And so how do you want to do it? Like, when do you want to do it? And what's going to happen? And who can we get to do it? He was blown away that it was a two minute conversation that I didn't argue with him and tell him to stop. And this is not what men do. Then there was the challenge of his parents.
He had to tell his parents. He waited for months to tell his parents because he knew that the reaction This is a societal reaction and also his parents' reaction to his decision. And he waited until he got a congratulatory letter from our CEO, which I had arranged. And he showed that letter as an artifact to his father in order to gain the courage to have the conversation with him saying, Dad, I'm taking six months paternity leave.
And I think, oh my God, that's the experience for guys. And I feel like those experiences that many women are used to in terms of fighting for equal pay or whatever, guys are kind of fighting the same battle now to talk about their mental health or to get some time with their kids or things like that so it's actually the same struggle just to get some balance you know in life and work and men and women have a joint goal here.
I'm so inspired by this story and strong leadership is absolutely critical to make this happen so well done to you and your company this is great example of company culture. I actually have the same experience while my team members is on four months parental leave. So what I did is I'm a strong believer of not making a big deal of it. Come to me straight away, agreed, spoke to HR, they're very supportive and announced it to the team very normally because I was just thinking this is great, I celebrated him on this decision but also very calmly worked with other team members because we don't have backfill for him so all of us actually chipping to make this happen for him because we all do extra work but because people understand this is the right thing to do and they didn't think anything extra of it i just love the fact it's normal maybe it's a rare example because it's not normal because undercurrent right yeah it's not normal it's not normal but it's some really good examples of when it's working

And I think, you know, Robyn, to your point and your frustration, I think a lot of these examples are not really shared. And we think it's this big, huge, you know, when you use when we use the word movement, you think Black Lives Matter, you think Me Too, you think hundreds and thousands of people and absolutely can be those things. But it can also be one small one perceived to be small action that if someone else sees it and they it snowballs.
And, you know, not all organizations are like this, tons of people that would be like parental leave, you're joking me, right? Or they would be Oh, you know, delay it or whatever. And I think it is, you know, there is still those biases there for for everybody. But you know, particularly we find that for women, and I'm finding actually, I'm seeing like, when a lot of men now are asking for parental leave, or they're the ones that are saying, you know, I'm leaving early because I'm going to my kids play or You know, I cried this morning because of my child.
You know, we're celebrating you, but that doesn't always happen with a woman. We're not celebrating the woman. And Damien, it's no offense to you because you're lovely, but it's like, what a great guy. Oh, I love him. We need more of, you know, we need more of him. Let's clone Damien and have like 10,000 Damien's across Asia, you know, talking to us about equality. But the truth is there aren't that many Damien's or maybe I'm wrong.
We need to start recruiting the Damien's of the world because to Robyn's point as well, it's not going to work if a group of women who really get it keep talking to other groups of women who really get it. you've got Damien in full technicolor who's awesome modern guy courageous thinker whatever and you don't want him to be beaten down and fade from full technicolor into gray because of structural stuff and how we treat like I think Damien's do need elevating and there's a lot of blowback saying oh you know when men have had it their way for so long why should we help elevate them but the great behaviors and the great kinds of them and the courageous should be elevated and they need a little step up just like women needed a step up to get into a position because there's no one in the room there.
I think you know we discussed this the other night as well is you know we celebrate things or if we celebrate in this particular conversation around a male taking an action or a male and saying well done good job type of thing. I think sometimes we do also miss you know that women are doing this every day. And on that point around the parental leave, I will also say that I do find the struggles with women also and parental leave.
So in a world that has moved so quickly and things change so quickly, I often have conversations with women alike about making sure that they take the amount of leave that they need to be able to spend with their family, their newborn, et cetera, and not rush back to coming to work because of fear of maybe losing their job or their job not being available and somebody else taking over that. So I think there's those two pieces there.
And I think over time, while it was a generation or two earlier where the parental leave or maternity leave was absolutely normal, people would go off. And in different countries, it's three months, six months, 12 months, two years, whatever that might be. I think that it has changed a little bit for women as well. And I think spending the time there to make sure for me to say to them, it's okay, you need to take the time, right?
So removing that gender piece and saying, okay, well, male or female, it doesn't matter. And sometimes both at the same time, depending on what's gonna work for their family. I think that's an important piece too. And one area that I spend a bit of time on equally so with females around that parental leave piece. Thank you, Damien, for articulate better for me. This is what I'm trying to say about normalize, you know, and I also agree with Robyn because right now we would like to gain momentum so we have a movement so we should celebrate this courageous man or this good examples, but the end goal is to have it just any other day.
I wonder if this is

a lot of what you're talking about here is about celebration and about visibility. And, you know, there's been conversations about role models for years, but it's been a bit off, in my opinion, hasn't really worked. You know, we need to have role models and then the role models aren't what we want in terms of role models. And, you know, certain women are wheeled out every time as the role model because they seemingly have it all, but inside they're falling apart, right?
So I think we need a new conversation about visibility and about celebration. I mean, I'm just thinking about this conversation now with the three of you and your examples. If people all over the world could see these examples, hopefully a good percentage of them would say, OK, well, if they can do it, maybe I can do it. Authenticity would be the key, Sam, in my opinion, because nobody has it all. How do we embrace the true version of life in both authentic leadership in resilience and tips on how to balance work and life.
Let's be real about it because these examples as you wheeled out I could argue it was a trial and as time progresses we do better and better as a society would hope right? Just bring in there as well Robyn I think to your point at the start and Malan mentioned a little bit as well around the leadership piece as well, Sam, I think the leadership piece is gonna be absolutely critical because we need a group of leaders that can take collectively, whether we call it collective leadership or whatever it might be, to take that together and lead the way and bring everybody along because quite often people need. the leadership there right people need people have great ideas people are thinking the same but what do you do about it going back to our conversation earlier that's where you need the courageous leaders to step up and take action And I think, Robyn, I think that's where you're kind of going to be front.
I think that's a key piece there that is kind of missing. And we see it a lot with role models, celebrities and all of that who are key leaders and courageous leaders there. But there's a big piece in the middle now of what do you call them? Business leaders, societal leaders, community leaders that we really need to get behind and support. So I think there's those two pieces there. And I think over time, while it was you know, generation or two earlier where the parental leave or maternity leave was absolutely normal, people would go off and in different countries it's three months, six months, 12 months, two years, whatever that might be, to move the movement and to move some of these pieces along.

Totally agree, Damien, I think you've outlined that really well. And then I might even add a third layer and say, you know, you need great role models and great leaders to help drive it and give the nudge and put their shoulder behind it and sponsor people, you know, and help keep them on the track when they when they go off the rails a little bit. But then you've got that layer below, which is the actual people themselves who want to elevate themselves or gain some courage in some area of their life.
It comes back to practice, right? How do we create those forums where they get practice? I need to practice having courageous conversations at home with my husband about the division of housework or labor or whatever. Or I need courageous conversation to ask for that promotion or that pay rise at work or to speak in a public forum or things like that. So part of it is those little things that we do every day.
And that's why I think, as you say, Damien, the leaders are very important. They see what's happening, but they're making sure you're doing it little and often every day so that we build those muscles, those courage muscles. you know, over time, in every day, it becomes normal. It's a culture and it's a mindset, it's a habit, right? So organisational culture, you have these strong leaders, then we have the policies and frameworks and this creates a very safe environment for people to be courageous and take actions to challenge the status quo, to make things better.
But within ourselves, we need to really, like Robyn was saying, habitually or apply discipline to exercise these courageous muscles and only we have done all that together we can succeed i think then the movement or of course would have happened i'd hope yeah and um and just going back to that leadership piece just so that i'm a little bit clear there as well is it doesn't necessarily mean that the most senior people need to be the leaders all of us within now we know a lot of people who We're creating opportunities to elevate them as leaders in their own right.
And they could be someone that's a fresh graduate into our business. They could be someone that's been there for one or two years. They could be someone that's been there for 20 years, or it could be students. And I think that type of leadership, that is where, how do you get behind all of those as a generic leadership piece? So it's not about your seniority. It's not about how old you are.
It's about who's got the courage to step up and lead this initiative. And quite often I'm getting behind, and I think we all are, we're all getting behind people that we know that are wanting to lead these and are passionate about it. And so it's not always about people at a certain level or certain experience or certain age that need to be the natural born leaders type of thing. It could be people coming behind and creating that elevation to Robyn's point.

A lot of it's fear. So I'll use two examples here. So one is fear. So after the Me Too movement, I read some statistics saying 60% of men fear having conversations with women in case of some Me Too blowback or whatever, which is like, you know, Me Too was about not being sexually assaulted or harassed while you're at work. It's pretty low bar, right? But because it's not explained or because it's so politicized now, Even men who don't understand that movement are too afraid to ask about it because in case they look wrong or they speak wrongly or, you know, they get some kind of blame for something.
So it's not a super nice for men, either good men who are trying to understand more. Right. And I see the same with Black Lives Matter movement. There was some statistic that was like 82 percent of Americans don't really have conversations about race in their homes because they say, oh, well, I'm not racist. I don't see color. you know, everything's fine here and whatever. And so it's a non-conversation. They're not saying they are, but they're not even talking about it, right?
Because it's now so highly politicized that if you call the group by the wrong name or you use the wrong pronoun or you do something wrong, you know, it's like the Twittersphere comes on top of you. So I think it's really stifling the conversation that we need to have. So I almost think that as leaders, the courage that we need to have is to talk about these and and be not be scared to as Brené Brown says have your ass handed to you and do it anyway feel the fear and do it anyway about mental health about Black Lives Matter about you know LGBT rights or anything that we men taking you know parental leave it's like your LinkedIn post Malan where you know you just start commenting and whatever it starts small but then you become known for that and you become a big voice for that you have a lot of followers and now you get scale you know yeah Also, I supplement that with real life champion initiatives at work, simple act like wearing purple to encourage discussion on LGBTQI, mentoring young analysts, just live and breathe.
All sorts of things are inspiring, including R&D. And I think if all of us make that part of our lives, then

It's not working. No, and also I feel some people are emboldened by the big epic goal and the big thing, let's get after it, that big north star that you're talking about, Sam. And then I do see that some people like, no, I live a quiet life and I'm not into big goals and I'm more toned down in the way I operate and run my life, whatever. And I sometimes think, well, maybe those people need something different.
Maybe they need to do like the profit and loss statement for their life, I can sit where I am, and my on the profit side, I can do nothing and change nothing. And my payoff is that I will feel safe. I don't have to do anything. It's lower energy, you know, all this kind of stuff, but they often fail to count the loss side of the P&L equation of their life, right?
I really like that. I really, really like that profit and loss for your life. Because I'm not talking about big goals, right? I think big goals can be equally as scary for people, right? And I know that as businesses we operate because I'm talking about purpose. I'm talking about reason that I'm here. Why do I exist? What can I possibly do to make some kind of contribution to humanity in my lifetime?
When I die, what are people going to be saying about me? Here lies Sam Collins. She was lazy and didn't do much. here lies Sam Collins and she was just really safe and said all the right things at the right time. Here lies Sam Collins and she did something. That would be, I would be pretty happy with that. That's your last statement. That's your last statement. She did something. I think if we connect people to purpose that is bigger than themselves.
You all work for these huge global organizations. that are spread across the globe, that do amazing things, that make a difference to so many people. And, you know, we're talking about equality and inclusion. There's tons of issues within organizations like yours still, there's so much work left to be done. But isn't there a bigger purpose here about communities that we live in and countries that surround us and places where there is, it's just going to complete crap right now, especially for women.
Do you think that if we can connect people to a bit more of a global idea, you know, with Robyn's point about the profit and loss, like let me try and do something. I feel like we could get people really engaged and moving towards something. I think we all need to get on the same train. Yeah, yeah.

And so I'm just coming back to the profit and loss. I think a tool like that can really help, right? Like if your payoff is just to feel safe and do the same and whatever, that's not much of a payoff, right? So we have to actually articulate what is the payoff of doing something epic that's bigger than you outside your community, right? You might self actualize, you might create, you know, new networks of friends that really build on your happiness.
So you might, you know, do something epic there. But also to think about the loss, because it's not just about the personal payoff. What are the consequences if you don't do it? And I think people don't think about that enough, like looking at it in a balanced way. What are the consequences if you don't do something outside yourself, right? The things may continue to decline or you will continue to lose, but you have a less relevant voice in how things play out and things like that.
So I think it's worth getting people to think about and it's usually where the aha moment happens is what's the consequences if you do nothing. I love that. I think we think, don't we? We think, what's the consequences if I do do it? If I do do this thing, you know, all these terrible things can happen to me. But we don't think, I love that, what will happen if I don't do it?
And thinking, and then we kind of go instantly to ourselves, don't we? Well, I would just, you know, whatever is going to happen to me, to my family, I won't be able to… pay my mortgage or whatever you know people do yeah yeah but we don't think about the the loss potential ripple effect yeah look about Malan's example with linkedin and the ripple effect she had those 25 000 people if she had said okay if i do this people might not like it my company might be like oh why are you doing this or whatever they would think or other people would be like oh who does she think she is sending out all these posts or whatever you know goes on in our heads

I did feel like this source did come in for about 30 seconds. Then I thought about, nah, I'm sure this is still aligned with my values. But let me ask you this. Were you more connected to overcoming the fear of it or were you more connected to the purpose of it and why you were doing it? The purpose of it. Throughout my entire life, never really cared that much about external affirmation because I think one thing Sam you touched on is the spirituality of all humans.
This is a topic that we don't teach at school. Okay, we get taught doing math, write English. and all this necessary critical thinking and analysis skills that will equip us to get a good job and progress our careers. And some of us very lucky, we get the exposure and opportunity to attend some excellent training that will teach us skills to do profit and loss analysis, as Robyn has just suggested. But a lot of us don't have that opportunity, let's face it, even in country like Singapore.
It could be a combination of unaware that I could benefit from this kind of exposure, this kind of training, or not actively pursuing the opportunity or actively pursuing but not getting this opportunity. But if we step 10 steps back, we should, first of all, look inward to see who we are. Okay. And while we're here, what is the purpose? What truly makes me happy? And therefore I radiant the energy outward. What are my values?
What are my purpose? And I think this is a piece a little bit taboo, you know, so spiritual spirit and blah, blah, blah. But I really think it's really important piece. And that gives me a lot of clarity and a confidence in the actions I take. Of course, certain skills are required. I cannot just go out there to like whatever post I see. I apply these skills to judgment, so I selectively like, selectively share, and I will also write some descriptions sometimes to make sure people are aware why I'm sharing this.
So I don't know, Sami, if that answers your question. You know, I'm wondering whether we, you know, your point about we don't teach spiritualities, we might just

come organically through our parents or through societal or religion or whatever aspect it is. It's not something that we really bring in even into the business world. And I remember when we had had the conversation about the WIMAR talk and I said I want to do a meditation, I want to do a visualization because it is something that really helps people to connect with what is so important because we're not doing that because we're so in our logical mind all the time.
So Damien, do you think we should be teaching spirituality in business? Yeah, I mean, I think there's the peace and also the self-reflection piece too, right? You know, when you take time out to meditate or to really think about for me, it's all linking back to the purpose, right? And I found that purpose has changed a bit over time, but the values have stayed the same. The intrinsic values that I carry today is very similar to what it was back in the day to how I was brought up as well.
And I think one of the big pieces here around that spirituality piece is teaching people to take the time and think about What are we here for? What do we want to achieve? Going back to Robyn's point as well about, are we the hamster on the wheel? A lot of us feel like that day in, day out, we can quite often feel like we're the hamster on the wheel, but are we taking the time to step back and to think about what am I about as an individual and what do I want to achieve?
And that is so important, I think, for us to be able to teach people to do from a very early age. I think it needs to be taught because kids are, we're in a very, very fast paced, fast moving world these days. I mean, it's taken me forever to get up to speed with technology. I mean, I don't have a Facebook account. I just don't think I can throw all of these other social media on top of what I've got today and I'm trying to track today because things just move too quick.
So I think there's definitely a great point that Malan makes around purpose. looking inwards, absolutely, but also taking the time out to self-reflect as individuals and realigning where we want to go. I like the word you said, alignment, right? Align our soul with our purpose, and I know it sounds ideological, but really if all the humans are centered, we are

much more loving and helpful and towards others and that will be the answer to Sam's question to the greater impact on the world because we are very fortunate and isolated in a good safe environment but there are many other bigger issues that we all need to help to tackle. We become less cynical, we become less jaded, we become more optimistic and positive and you know I think when you when you have a pioneering spirit when you want to see change it's never fast enough so it's a very fast-paced world with a very slow pace of change and when you put those two things together it's almost impossible and it's frustrating but when you can see the bigger picture when i think back to my great-grandmother who arrived in the East End of London as a refugee and she joined the suffragette movement and she was not allowed to work and she, you know, her husband, she had to ask her husband for everything, you know, we've come a long way.
But I was also laughing to myself, Damien, when you were talking about technology because I was in the car driving with my husband the other day and we have the the new school and the new school has a Slack account. Yeah. And the Slack account. I'd never heard of this thing, Slack anyway, but we're driving along and my husband's just very proud. So I've got us all set up on the slick.
The slick's all done. The slick. You mean Slack, right? And it's not that. It's just Slack. Did he have to go on the line to do that? He had to go on the line and look at the Facebook. Twitter as well it was just sort of hilarious because we're sort of trying to keep up with this stuff even when it's you know outside of working in a school and I was like you know I have so many of those I need you to do the slick I can't do the slick you have to do the slick because I've got too many of those things I'm doing already so we were sort of laughing to ourselves about this whole thing I love this conversation about purpose values self-reflection coming back to center which I think is critical

in our transitioning Covid world, where we've taken such a battering, you know, personally, family-wise, energy-wise, mental health-wise, business-wise, profit-wise, everything has been pretty tricky for many, many people. So I think to take this time to reconnect with those things, these basic things, to remember, I think, that this idea about humanity and that, you know, if somebody's asking for a parental leave or somebody wants to work different hours or they need a, they're asking for a pay rise that we look at them as a, as a human being.
Everyone's at a different place. And so, you know, to affect any kind of change or to have the courage to affect some kind of change, whether it's to help people self-actualize, you know, and be the best version and connect to their purpose, or whether it's something like big, like helping women thrive in the workplace, or First Nations people thrive, or changing climate, and let's decarbonise things, right? So there's a big goal or a little goal.
But it's, you know, connecting to that, it's, there's a bit of courage involved in all of that. But I kind of feel it's a bit like, it's a game of life, right? And you can either be in the game, or in the audience on the sidelines. So whenever you do try and do something, You know, you will have a lot of naysayers saying, oh, well, that won't work. We tried that before.
They won't. Robyn, what are you doing that for? And no, this person will block it. And, you know, this this is not in our policy or this is not aligned with Australia. You know in yourself it's the right thing. So there are all those people in the audience. They're saying don't do it, whatever. But they're not the ones helping make that epic thing happen. The people who are in the game, right, who are trying to do something big like change climate or whatever, they're very focused.
They know what they want. It's like the game of tennis. You're just looking focused on the next ball that's coming to you, and it just clarifies things. Your purpose is to win the game, and you're just focused on the next ball. And so I think it is the same in life. Whatever you have aligned your purpose to, it really helps clarify your purpose and takes out the whole noise of the audience, which is you're there to ignore them because you're there for a bigger purpose.

those listening to do as a result of listening to this, of hearing you today. Robyn, what's your call to action for people? I'm loving the way you summed it up in terms of the diversity of this group is the thing that makes us the most powerful and we should really try and cultivate that. So that's something I'm going to try and take away and do more of or just elevate the wherever I'm at, just try and elevate that to the next level.
That was really powerfully laid out. Thanks, Sam, for having me. Pleasure. I really would like the audience to have an open mind to be inspired and prepared to inspire others and every single day just exchange very positive energy with others in all aspects in your life and trust me equality and diversity and many other issues will be solved along the way if we all do this. Natural course. Love it, fantastic. I don't get to spend that much time with that many men working for this organization that's all about women.
So it's been such a treat for me, Damien. Thank you for bringing your presence. And before you speak, I just wanted to acknowledge you because I loved how you would refer back to all of us. Did you notice how he was always doing that? Like just what Robyn's point was earlier and what Malan's point was earlier and what Sam's point was earlier, it really demonstrated to me what a fantastic listener you are.
So I really appreciate that about you. Thank you. Thank you, Sam. And I mean, I love what Malan and Robyn have said as well. And I think that the piece for me is just always sitting back for individual people to just sit back and self reflect. Think about what's my purpose? What am I here for? Not just about you as an individual, but what else can I do to contribute to make other people's lives better? and that's an easy simple thing but it's hard very very hard to put into practice right as we've discussed today so really we think sitting back and as part of your self-reflection really think about what else can I do to be impactful and help my wider community the wider world and be behind certain movements that I really believe and have strong belief in very nice very nice Robyn you're a firecracker Thank you for bringing your jadedness to your practicality, to your vision.
I've felt the whole journey and I love it. And Malan, you are such a great combination of this discipline and hard work that I know is a kind of integral part of you, but at the same time, you're so grounded in that. And at the same time, you sort of float above us quite goddess-like in your spirituality, it's a lovely combination. For me this isn't even a conversation about men or women or genders or gender equality, for me this is a conversation about humanity and it's a conversation about individuality within humanity and then you can see I'm not annoyed or irritated by the difference.
I celebrate the difference because the difference collectively is going to be so much more impactful. I think that's way more of a fun idea. So I look forward to hearing all about what's happening. You've inspired me and given me some ideas of some things that I'd like to do. So you've helped me to think bigger today. So I really appreciate that. I'll let you get back to your Friday. Thank you so much, Sam.
It was fantastic. Thank you, Sam. Thanks for having us. Go drink your tequila. I have to wait for you for three hours. Bye-bye.

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