Climbing Mountains

I'm the new professor of lung health or respiratory medicine as the old terms are at King's College University in London. I've just moved from the University of Oxford and it's a really exciting time and place to be really because you've got amazing scientists, you've got amazing lung doctors, you've got amazing yeah, pharmacist nurses all put together and I get to work with great people to make people's lungs better, really. Yeah. Do you love it?
I do, I really do. Yeah, I mean, I think we were talking about it, weren't we? Like, the two definitions for the word inspire, right? And actually, everyone has to inspire. So, I guess being part of that, helping people to inspire and inspiring people to inspire if that makes sense. Yeah that's pretty cool actually. That definition we were talking about. inspiration inspired to breathe life into. So that really suits you because you actually do do that.
That's your real life job. Yes, I actually do do that. That is like one of the jobs, yes. It's my real life job too, but not like in a real lung way. Well, now I can put them together. So that's pretty good, I think. Maybe we should do something together. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So new job. Yeah.

▶ Play this clip

coming out, hopefully, allegedly, probably, most likely, coming out of the pandemic now. Yes. People really understanding more about what you do. What's your vision? What are you really wanting to do? What's the dream? Yeah, so again, I've been thinking about this. I mean, it's only four weeks into the job and I think the vision really has to be about preventing and diagnosing and treating people's lungs for their lifetime. Because actually, you know, it's your first breath.
It's all your breaths that you take across all your lives and all the exposures that you come across. And that's why I think it has to be across the whole course of life, really. And that makes me really, really excited and passionate about it. What is it about being across the course of life that makes it so exciting? I think because you meet people who either have a problem with their breathing at any age.
You don't have to be young, you don't have to be old. The pandemic has taught us you can have completely normal health and still be affected and be breathless. So it's meeting people from all walks of life that may have a problem that you can try and help them with. At the same time, it's meeting scientists from across all different places who also want to help in their way too. So I think it's about bringing all of that community together, which yeah, I think is going to be really important and it's something that I'm going to be wanting to push and drive.
I can hear it.

▶ Play this clip

Did you ever think when you were a little girl that you were going to do this job? Was this something that was important to you? No, I think when I was a little girl, I think I wanted to be a mechanic, actually. I wanted to put stuff together. I like putting stuff together and then taking bits and pieces apart and then fixing. I like fixing things, but I always thought it would be fixing cars, probably.
I think that's what I wanted to do was be a mechanic until I was about 15. And then, then I decided actually, I probably like helping people. And that's what I, and then I thought I should probably work a little bit towards some exams and try a bit harder. So yeah, that's when I decided to be a doctor. I didn't know I wanted to be a lung doctor until my first job as a junior doctor. and that was because I worked for someone who truly inspired me because they were just, he was called Sherwood, and he was just an amazing person to work for because you learn lots of different stuff.
You learn about the origins of words, you learned about how to treat people nicely and kindly. So yeah, that was why I wanted them to do lung medicine. But before that, as a little girl, I wanted to be a mechanic.

▶ Play this clip

And where did you grow up? Tell us a little bit about your early life. So I was born in Yemen, in Aden. I'm Yemeni by origin. And all my family are there. My dad left Aden and came to the UK. And so my mum then joined him with two little girls. One was four, that was me. And my sister was three. and we came to UK then, and so home has been the UK since then, but you know I have an identity that is very much affiliated with Yemen too, and Britain, so I like putting it together actually.
Yeah, so born in Yemen, came to the UK at about four or five, yeah. Tell me about Yemeni Mona. Yemeni Mona is, I would say, very spirited, very passionate, actually has a huge sense of warmth, but could be probably a bit kooky about it. Probably is very, I mean, I would say I am very driven, very driven, but at the same time, kind of see that there are no, there shouldn't be any barriers.
Of course there are barriers, but there shouldn't be any barriers to what you want to do and how you want to do it and for everyone to do it together. So Yemeni Mona doesn't see these rules perhaps or hierarchies as much as everyone else does. So likes to do it her own way, I think. I pretty much- Are you a rule breaker? I would probably say I am. Yeah. Just because I, you know, like I used to, as a kid, I used to wonder, why are there all of these rules?
Why is everyone saying, no, you can't do that? I mean, it's probably adults telling children, no, you can't do that, you can't do that, you can't do that. So it gets a little bit, why is everyone saying no? So yeah, so I think it's helped shape me to just do things the way I want to do them. And how do you,

▶ Play this clip

So there's so many things I admire about you because, you know, we've been working together, coaching, met you like in person a couple of weeks ago, and you've achieved all these amazing things, but it feels like you don't really recognize it or you're just so humble. What do you think has contributed to you getting to this fabulous position of influence that you're in? Yeah, I mean, I think ultimately I've always had to have, and I think it's important to have a sense of grounding.
And the people I meet on a day-to-day basis, the patients I care for, they're all from all walks of life and there shouldn't be a distinction between me or them. And so I've always tried really hard to be on people's level. And I think just continuing to be on people's levels, but driving to achieve for the sense of purpose of yourself, but also for others, I think probably has just helped me do that.
At the same time, like I said, I don't really like taking no for an answer. So if… if there isn't, if there is a no, then there's got to be another strategy. There's got to be another way you can get to a, solve a problem, fix a problem or whatever it is. So yeah, I've always tried to think, you know how people see that there's a box and people think inside a box.
It's not that even I don't, I think outside the box. I'm not even sure I do that. I just don't see a box. It's like, there isn't a box what are we talking about to me we don't live in boxes so yeah I think that's been it really there's got to be a lot of tenacity like there's got to be a lot of I don't mind failing because failing helps you learn you know I know lots of people that sometimes are so scared of failure that they don't even try or apply so I've never really been scared of failing, actually.
I mean, I've failed loads of stuff and that's quite good, but there are, I mean, you know, so I think there's all of these things put together, probably. Yeah. It's like you're trying to self-diagnose. I'm done. Well, I mean, you could sometimes step back and go, isn't it funny, like, You've just like, you're now in this really cool job. You're with really cool people. You've worked all the way through your career with really cool people.
And now you're like, you know, doing even more cool stuff. Like actually, I say this to my students, to junior doctors as well, I think we're in a very privileged position as doctors. So we have to honour that privilege because people tell us everything about them. They need us to help them. They might be scared, anxious, you know, hurt, dying, all of that. So you're in a real privileged position. So it is really important to honour that.
So I think that's what's carried me through because I'm in a privileged role and I keep being

▶ Play this clip

grounded with that. You know, I'm just thinking there are few women, fewer women than men, you know, in the kind of jobs that you're only talking about sort of professors in, let's say, a pretty traditional organization that you work in, although changing and evolving all the time. And there are even fewer women of color. And we can talk a lot about the barriers. We can talk a lot about what stops women getting to positions such as yours, whether they want to or they don't want to.
But it seems like you recognize that there are barriers. Tell me if I got this right. You recognize there are barriers, but you don't seem to be bothered by them. You seem to be like, what is it you're doing? You're negotiating your way around them. You're just jumping right over them. You're plowing through them. You don't see them. What is it? Yeah, so that's a really good point. There are definitely barriers. and I face them throughout, right?
And you see them throughout. And it gets hard, particularly as you get higher up to the top, it gets more lonely because there are not enough people that look like you, that are like you, so it's have a voice like you. So it does get harder and there are definitely barriers. I see the barriers, I choose to go round the barriers, because unless we do that, then how can more people like me, women of colour, be in these positions?
And what I will say that it has been hard, but my aim will be to make it easier for others behind me, because the more that there are, then yes, you might dilute everything, but that's a good thing, because you need

▶ Play this clip

you need more of differences, really. We need more diversity, more different opinions, more ideas, more innovations. And so when you say you go around the barriers, how do you do that? What does that look like? So for me, for example, I will say, give you a few examples. I'll apply for stuff that I don't even know I should. I'm not like, well, I'll just apply. Why not? I don't maybe ask for permissions to apply to stuff.
I'll just do it. And sometimes if I don't get it, I'll apply again because it's like, well, no, I'm going to carry on applying because I'll just ignore what they said the first time around. Really? That's so classic. I love it. I just pretend. Do you not know who I am? Do you not see my application? No, I just almost just pretend that, oh, I know you might've said no, but I'll try again because maybe we're having a bad day.
So yeah, so it's a bit like, you know what? I don't care. You're going to see me lots and lots and lots until you suddenly go. Oh, God, it's her again. Well, maybe. It's her again in a good way. In a good way. It's a good way. Oh, look, she has taken note of some of the negative parts or the things that she wasn't very good at the first time, and she's improved on them, so she's applying again.
But there are occasions, so I know particularly like colleagues, women particularly, may not say they're good enough to apply for a professor position or even an associate professor position. For me, although it's great to be in this position, I don't see titles, I don't see this hierarchy. So instead of saying, I don't think I've ever said I'm not good enough to apply, I'll go, why not? That's the difference. I'll go, why not?
Why shouldn't I? And going with that, because I'm not scared to get rejected or a failure, I just keep on. I'll just keep on doing it. So yeah, that's what I think I do. That's what I think. But it is hard. There are barriers. The important thing is there's got to be more diversity so that the barriers are broken down. You know what? I mean, if people can see your face, you say, oh, there's barriers and you recognize that there's barriers, but you have a big smile on your face as you say it.
So it's almost like you find it all quite

▶ Play this clip

amusing in some ways. Is that right? Do you see the funny side of it? Yes. Does that help? Yes, it does help. It does really help because you could beat yourself up every day, but life is too short, right? And if you want to, I think as we've spoken, right, if you want to make change, then you've got to enjoy and give your permission to and accept that. Actually, we only live once.
So yeah, I find it funny. I do find it funny. The barriers are there and I can see them. I just have to laugh about them because ultimately as a doctor, I know we are made of so many thousand cells. I know how each cell evolves. I know exactly the function of all the cells. We're like all the same, really. We are all humans ultimately. So it's not that I don't see the differences, I do, but you've got to just get yourself up there.
I mean I've been called challenging before, I've been called oh you are challenging. I take that as a bonus point, I was like well that's good because we need to challenge ourselves because if we didn't then like it'd be really boring. It would be so boring. And in so many places, it is so boring, right? It is all kind of the same. And there's so many things I love about you, but you have something, you and I have something in common.
And I also have no real sense of hierarchy. I'm like, okay, we're all, yes, you might be the CEO or the president or the cleaner or taxi driver. Are we interested in everybody? Yes. And when you are like that, life is wonderful because people are really interesting. Even people that are sort of dark, scary, different, you know, to us or whatever, I always find very interesting to find out what makes them tick.
But when you have that as well, doesn't it give us so much power? Because we're not really scared of anything or scared of what people might say. And I'm sure people call you all sorts of things. Yes. No, I'm positive they do. And that's good. because you kind of have to challenge the status quo but ultimately like you know everyone is unique in a way but also the same if you just look at their biology they're all, everyone's the same right so yeah and taking all of that together with the

▶ Play this clip

the fact that you meet patients who need you, it all kind of probably has, well it definitely has moulded to how I approach things. But yes, you've got to smile with it too. And how do you get things done? What's your secret to success for getting things achieved? Yeah, I think I get things achieved by showing people the journey. and bring them on the journey with me. I think that's how I do it the best.
But I also think that I, there's a lot of, I mean, I could do everything. I just don't have the time. So I do like to delegate, but I also like to make sure I develop people. So in my teams, I've always tried to find the skills that people have, what their aspirations are, what their future wants are. And then I help them along that with the journey that we're all going together.
So, and I think that's worked really well. I mean, I've had lots of junior doctors that have worked with me who I've inspired to do lung medicine, which is really good. I've had Lots of females reach out and want to do an academic career path. So go via a teaching university role or scientific role. So all of these things, I guess if I ever sat down and put them on paper, I know my smile will get bigger and bigger and bigger because it's about influencing.
If you can influence one person, then that's a great thing. If you can influence more than one person, that's an even bigger thing. So I do take that responsibility, but with honour, I think. I'm honoured by that, actually. I love that. You really do. I mean, you're so impressive. Do you know that? You really got to do that list and put it on your wall and smile about it. I know last week when you were at one of our events, didn't someone say to you something like that?
And what was your reaction? Well, I mean, it was almost… When someone you don't know tells you that you're impressive or you're amazing, you kind of go, shit, I am. Or what's your game? Why are you saying that? I haven't even paid you to say that. So then you step back and it's, I think as we said, it's like, wow, you can do so much more by what you do. And I probably have never sat down and thought about it like that before.
Before it's been…

▶ Play this clip

Like, you know, I've been focusing on getting to where I am by making sure the team are okay, the studies are okay, the funding's okay, the patients are okay, but it's been in that small bubble. But now, like it's no longer a bubble. It can just emanate. A bit like a ripple effect, really. It's really wonderful. You could do anything. Like you had unlimited resources. what would you do? Who would you impact and why?
Wow. If I had unlimited resources, I'd be impacting on really kind of on a global scale, why it's important to, well, it depends on a professional scale would be why it's important to look after your lungs. And so you can reach out lots, lots of ways. on a professional scale. On a personal scale, it will be on impacting on equality and diversity and, you know, getting young people from everywhere to just see what potentials they have, I think.
I've always thought, like, if I had loads of money, if I won the lottery, one of the things I would do would be to set up a medical school in somewhere that doesn't have the resources to. so that actually people can go and learn and have potentially the ability to help others. That's what I think I would love to do. So the word doctor, I'm speaking to a friend who likes the meanings of words, the word doctor actually also means teacher. it is about teaching too.
So I'm able to now combine it properly. So that's what I'd love to do. If I had all the money and the resources, I'd put schools and medical schools in places that needed them. Why do you think we do that? Like say like, oh, well, we separate things like on a professional level, I'd like to do this. And on a personal level, I'd like to do that. I wonder if you combine those two things together. could be even more powerful.
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, you're right. You're right. Why do we split them up? I think maybe it's because you worry that if you combine them, it's then maybe not achievable. But actually, if you combine them, it's probably an easier process to do because you've combined two great loves instead of the one separately. Where would your medical college school be, do you think? So I would… So Yemen healthcare is non-functional.
It really doesn't exist at the moment, unfortunately. So I would put it in the poorest places, in the poorest places in each continent, probably. But if I had unlimited wealth, then it would be in the poorest country, in every poor country, if it's unlimited. Oh yeah, I'm giving you lots of unlimited. Yeah. I mean, the other thing, the good thing, I mean, the other thing that you can do now actually, which is not unheard of as a consequence of the pandemic is, you know, you can teach people online or virtually you can record seminars.
So actually maybe you don't need as much unlimited wealth as you think you do because there's access points now. I mean, I always say like, I'm always inspired and in awe of the doctors who

▶ Play this clip

who go to war zones and stuff like that. But they're now even teaching online on how to help people immediately in that vicinity. And they do pretty amazing stuff. So people are reachable, people are reachable. So I guess maybe I don't need all the wealth that you would give me. I could start now. Yes, you could. So your idea broke. Well, one of the other things that I really admire about you is your speed. you really strike me, and I've seen it in action, where when you have an idea, you move with it.
When you want to do something, you just get it done. There doesn't seem to be sort of any excuses in your mind, and I don't doubt that you're a very busy person. So how do you do that? Yeah, I mean, I don't know where that's come from, but yeah, I don't know where that has come from. I think I'd have to sit and work through all of the the processes in life that have made me just get on with stuff.
Maybe it comes from like, so we moved a lot as kids. I think between the ages of five to 10, we'd moved to like five or six different schools. So maybe picking up, getting on with something somewhere else was always part of the nature of things. So, you know, when you move lots of places, you've got to start to get to know people quickly. You've got to start with a new timetable. or get to meet some friends, make friends, which is always hard, et cetera, et cetera.
So maybe that was it. Maybe, you know, and actually as a doctor and as a junior doctor, you move around so many different hospitals. So again, it's just, you've got to pick up, go somewhere else, start from scratch, and you've got to get on with it really quickly. So maybe that's where it's come from because- Maybe. Maybe, I don't, maybe. You learn how to pack and unpack. Yes. Pack and unpack quickly, start somewhere new.
I mean, you would be thrown into a new hospital on your first day. You might not even have access to any of the computer systems, but you'll be seeing patients and having to find their blood results and stuff. So you just got on with it. So maybe that's what it is. It's that background of moving schools, getting on with it, moving jobs in terms of medicine, getting on with it. um yeah maybe that is because it's all it's always it's a different place different system different people um so you've just got to go otherwise nothing would happen if you didn't i mean you're a fast mover in a slow slow moving world let's say yeah probably probably i mean it's things like that that i can be very direct with it's like right action let's go um I'm sure there are other things, you know, like, oh, right, I've got to pay the MOT.
I've got to sort out the MOT. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So things like that, they can take, they can take it. Saving lives. Let's move it, people. Yes. You have to do with the car. Not. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I think if it was in all of my life, then that might be a bit too much. So I definitely take other things in a slower lane, which I'm quite happy to.

▶ Play this clip

And you're so passionate about different cultures and different people from all walks of life. And that cultural diversity I know is really key to you. And I'm hearing actually for the first time you talking about young people and young people being inspired and maybe going back to when you were inspired by Sherwood who inspired you and you want to be like that too. And so for young people maybe listening today that maybe sort of listening to you and saying, oh, I'd love to do something like that.
You know, it might, may or may not be in the medical profession, but they'd love to be more like you doing the work that you're doing and having your kind of attitude towards it. I think that's really key because I mean, I talk to a lot of successful people, but. I don't know that they're quite as chirpy as you are about it all. I really like that. You're so, so, so intelligent, obviously.
You've got all of that stuff. Your emotional intelligence is really high. And so for young people listening, what's your advice in this day and age and all the things that they have to deal with right now? Yeah, in this day and age, I think I would say, my brother used to say this. He was my youngest brother, so he was a teacher. My baby brother, in fact. He died in a traffic accident about five years ago.
But he used to always say, there's no such word as can't. And, you know, there isn't. There isn't. And people are always going to tell you, you can't do this. You're not good enough to do that. you're not smart enough, you're not the right height, you're not the right gender, you're not the right colour, you're not the right culture, it's not the right mother tongue. They're always going to tell you that so you could believe them but then life isn't so colourful really and life should be about colour and doing and literally aiming to do what you want.
I tell them I told a friend several times that yes, you can aim, I would always aim for the stars because if you don't get there, the journey to the clouds and the sky, that's pretty awesome. The journey to the stars, well, that's just out of this world, right? So you can always aim as high as you want to aim and however you get there and even if you don't, that journey up It's pretty cool.
I mean, you just have to look outside, right? You have to see the leaves dancing when the wind picks them up. You have to really feel the moment when you're walking barefoot on freshly cut grass. These are things that are still amazing. So it doesn't matter what you want to do or do do, everything on how you get there is… I think, amazing. That's how I would say. It's got to be amazing because you only are here for one time point, once.
Wow. Wise words for anybody, not just young people listening, but for all people listening. Well, I would say it to myself all the time. Aim for the stars, be brilliant. Whatever you do, you can be brilliant. I have a friend I gave a scarf and sometimes you can get personalised scarves and all I needed to write was be brilliant. That's two short words I think for anyone to take. I love it, I love it so much.
And what was your brother's name? My brother was called Ahmed. And so Ahmed's advice for the world. No such word as can't and we remember him, I remember saying that to my niece. who never really met him and I said there's no such word as can't and she said uh okay I will not be able to do so she tried to navigate the word can't that's pretty smart actually sometimes you might have to circumvent if you can circumnavigate the word then you can circumnavigate the world right

▶ Play this clip

Absolutely. Well, Mona, thank you very much. It's, if you ever feel like a career in inspirational speaking and motivation, you could easily do it. Put it together. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there's a double act coming on. I really do. And I'm looking forward to it and I'm looking forward to all that you're going to achieve over the years. And I mean, you've achieved so much already, but I feel like there's just this. massive opening now for you to influence many, many people.
Thank you, Sam. It really is a privilege to know you and a privilege to have this little bit of time with you. And you've really chirped me up as well. I feel really good after listening to you. Thank you. You make such a difference. And you have this wonderful combination of brilliance. That's the ultimate of what you are. You've got this incredibly high level of obvious experience and intellect. doing what you do and you wouldn't be able to be a professor doing what you do without it but there's so many added extras it's like it's it's really cool i tell great jokes they're very lucky to have you at king's college and i can't you know in just that that kind of organization, institutional work, where everyone's calling it with a group of people that have those kinds of passions that you have.
There's lots of exciting things to come. And of course, we do need you and your team so much more now post pandemic. We do recognize that. So it's essential and critical work that you're doing. And I love what we talked about before, food for thought for you, maybe about combining that.

▶ Play this clip

with you wanting to make a difference to young people around the world and through being a doctor, which is also being a teacher, which I had not thought about before. Just before we go there, I'm remembering, I don't want to sort of downplay the fact that you are in a pretty traditional type of structure there. And I remember a few years ago, actually, I had an appointment with a consultant and I went with my husband, actually, because he's feeling a little bit nervous, so he came with me.
And I don't know why they do this in the UK. They don't do it in the US. I'm sure there's good reasons for it. And they say, well, what do you do for a living? That's one of the first questions. And we were asking, what do you do for a living? I guess they're trying to sort of figure out if what you do for a living is impacting your illness, whatever. So I said, you know, I work in women's empowerment and equality.
And I swear this guy looked at Robert and said, how do you deal with that? I'm like, hello, I'm here, I'm here. Women's equality, why do you think I'm still doing it when you're coming out with that kind of comment? So it's still a little bit behind the time sometimes, isn't it? It is, it is. I mean, for the number of women who go into medicine, it's 50-50. compared to men. For the number of women who then do a PhD, so a higher degree, it's probably also 50-50.
It just then suddenly tails off when they want to actually strive to continue an academic career and we do have a big problem with that. So for sure, more women show them that make it easier for them to do it, don't make it so hard, stop putting up the barriers. Yeah, these are all still really big, important things that need to be impacted on. But we all have to start doing it and have the voices for that.
And people often need role models, don't they? They need to have a person who they look to and say, oh, OK, she's done it, he's done it, they've done it, and they look like me, sound like me, act like me. okay, if they've done it, I can do it. No, I mean, not everybody is, you know, the pioneer of new times and wants to be the first. Yeah. So I do think that it's really key to have relatable role models, though.
You know, relatable role models like you, where, I mean, there are certain individuals where we might say, okay, well, she looks like me, but I don't want to be her. Yeah, no, for sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. There was a

▶ Play this clip

So we're all physicians in the UK, especially and across the world are members of the Royal Colleges. And so we have the Royal College of Physicians here in London. It's like nearly 400 years old. So I applied and I got an award, which is great, very, very great to have this as an award. But I was only the fourth woman in 400 years to have got it. And the first one from an ethnic minority.
I mean, people say, like I can say yeah it's great to get that but at the same time it's like oh my god it's 400 years and I mean my instant response was well I'm not surprised because it's Mona then I had my like what's the fuck moment you know like please come on people I know so that's the point so you can people will say oh you should be really proud of it yeah I am but yeah be proud of the fact that it takes 400 years to get the first ethnic woman to get it.
I mean that's just what what the hell. I mean yeah so it's almost so I'm almost embarrassed to like it's a weird thing it's a weird thing like yes proud but also definitely not proud of that no one should be proud of that equally does that make sense? It makes so much sense, because I'm sure there was a big hoo-ha made about that, that you would have been fourth woman and the first woman of an ethnic background.
And I get that. Let's celebrate that too. But at the same time, it's pretty bloody pitiful, isn't it? What are we going to do, wait another 400 years for the next one? No, I know. Exactly. And that's what I've said. I was like, well, we can't wait another 400 years for another one. who looks like me let's just roll out the next one in 400 years no less silly stuff but i think look we can only do what we can do as individuals and and as individual change makers as change making women and you know what i love to do one of the things i love to do is to take someone like you and use the word brilliance and I'll use the word shine and help you to shine even more.
And for other people, especially other women and especially women of color to look at you and go, oh my God, look at this. This is a completely counter-cultural version of what I thought it would be like to be in a senior level position, whether it's medicine or it's IT or it's accounting or it's banking or it's tech or whatever it is.

▶ Play this clip

look at you and say, oh, I want to be her when I grow up. I want to be you when I grow up. Never that is. I want to grow up. But do you really? Do you ever, do you feel like sometimes, do you feel like, do you remember that film years and years ago, Big with Tom Hanks? Yes. When he was in, when he was in, he was in the suit. and he was like seven or something yeah yeah do you sometimes feel like that yeah no definitely definitely i mean i think um i mean kids are amazing right they're always curious always curious and unfortunately many adults we lose that curiosity and i think hanging on to it is really cool because you can sit back and go oh isn't this good so um yeah uh but enjoy what it is.
Enjoy it as it is, really. But yeah, you're right. I mean, shine and brilliance. Well, let's do it together, I think. Absolutely. Even enjoying the stuff that's not working. I just wanted to make that point, because I feel like you do that a lot. Like, even if people are giving you a hard time or they're calling you challenging in your very challenging voice, you could choose to really let it crush you.
And it can be quite crushing when people say stuff like that. And also it can be quite funny, can't it? It is funny because in my head, I just, I mean, in my head I'm like, yeah, whatever. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of things that go like that. So you just go, okay, yeah, whatever. Yeah, you have to, it can be crushing. And there are times that you have, you can feel like, this is not this isn't for me anymore or like I can't do this I can't keep on struggling uphill but there's always the thought that you've got to carry on because these people there would have been loads of people like me who may have been crushed along the way and never carried on so if even like one person gets up the top of the mountain, more people then go, oh, like that mountain.
Oh, okay. They didn't die along the way. They made it and they've left a trail for us to pick up. Yeah, that is really important to me, I think. Keep going. Yeah. Even when you can't breathe, halfway up a mountain. Yes. And then you'll be there, you're like, okay, this is how you make the most efficient use of your lungs in this moment. And I'll be all like, and here's an inspirational quote for you, just keep going, come on, let's keep going people, up the mountain, here we go.
And then we get to the top, it's going to be the most fabulous, fabulous view. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, don't die halfway up a mountain, I think is the moral to this story today. You can't die up halfway up a mountain, yeah. miserable isn't it and then you end up going all the way down to the bottom and go what why did i even make all the effort yeah what was the point in all that you've got to carry on get to the top it's a good crowd up there amazing yeah the views are amazing a good crowd yeah few drinks yeah fire yeah some nuts nuts okay yeah yeah i'll go with nuts yeah brandy or something yeah fire would be good coffee Yeah.
We could set up a Starbucks over there. People are literally like, what are these two going on about now? Maybe they don't realise that they've recorded or they kept recording. I'm sure there's been editing, I hope. Oh, editing. Definitely. Keep on going. Keep on going. Get to the top. Because, yeah, the views are going to be good.

▶ Play this clip

the views are going to be good. Looking up or looking across or looking down, the views are always going to be good. Oh, it's that platform, isn't it, you were talking about to reach for the stars. I love that. I think one of my biggest takeaways from listening to you today is when you talked about applying for things and not taking no for an answer. I mean, I really like that. I mean, it's not that you just kept applying though.
You made changes. It sounds like you made adjustments. You listened to feedback, you asked for feedback. But I like that. And you say, well, I just need to wait till they're in a better mood. That's really good. Almost like, I mean, some people might call it arrogant. It's almost like, I don't think they meant that. They were just having a bad day. Clearly, they didn't really see that it was me. Yeah, they really didn't.
I mean, yeah, that is sometimes the approach I take. I don't think they meant it, you know. So. And maybe they did, but well, maybe tomorrow they won't mean it. Maybe they did, but I'm not going to believe that. I'm just going, oh, they didn't mean it. Of course. I just think that's so powerful because so many opportunities get lost. People either don't apply for something or they apply and they don't do it again.
Like, yeah, it's like you keep you keeping going. Oh, yeah. I think that's I mean, that's got to be a definition of resilience. I really like that. Reminds me of the whole. Thomas Edison example with the light bulb, didn't he do it like 10,000 times or something? Yeah. I was trying to explain that to my son the other day, you know, this whole idea of failing and he was like, I'm not, I don't make light bulbs, I don't get it.
You have to translate it into your life darling. I remember once in medical school there was, we worked in, there were exams coming up and there were two components of the exam, like an essay, and exam questions. And I've got a bit of dyslexia, so I wasn't really great at writing. So there was a group of us and we were working together and they all chose to kind of copy each other quite a lot.
And I thought, no, no, no, I'm not gonna copy anyone. I'm gonna do this on my own. And so I did. And then in the medical school, they used to put all your results on a table, like on a blackboard. and your names were in the order if you got it. Now all these people got A's like all my mates have got A's and they were all at the top. I was looking for my name like it was like at the bottom it was last out of like the whole year and I was like oh my god I'm going to get chucked out of medical school.
And I went to find the tutor to try and give me some support. She didn't turn up to the meeting. I was like oh sod this I'll just work really hard for the exam. How hard can an exam be? it's multiple choice, which means the answer is there. It's like, one of the answers is correct. You've got the probability of getting one right, yeah, I'm with you. So, yeah, and I did that, and then I passed, like, highest than everyone else.
So you mustn't think you're, like, I think if it wasn't me, you could have been completely disheartened and crushed at coming last out of 150-odd people. everyone knew you were last too. You were the, like, the person who just was crap in that setting. So, but I was like, no, no, I'm gonna, I'll work on this. So, yeah. There was only one way up. There is only one way up. I mean, it's not like I'm gonna go anywhere from, like, I'm not gonna go lower than last.
So, yeah. That reminds me of, when I was at school,

▶ Play this clip

Now I'm going to show my age. I was the last year to do O levels and for the GCSEs, obviously in England. And I did my maths O level a year early. They thought I was bright enough to do this maths a year early. So I was very proud of myself. I thought they'd got it wrong, but you know, I thought I'll give it, I'll give it a go. Anyway, the teacher who was fabulous teacher, I'll never forget Mrs.
Wing. She used to say, because she used to say, All right, she would explain a maths concept and then she would say, Samantha Collins, do you understand? And I would say, yes or no, because I don't know how to not be honest with those kind of things. And she would say, OK, well, if Samantha Collins doesn't understand, if Samantha Collins understands, everyone understands, because I was like the lowest parameter of this class.
And so I had this very strong awareness that I was at the bottom of this maths class, and I'd like barely dragged myself in there to do this maths a year early. So like you, I just thought, this, I'll show them. Yeah. What's the worst that can happen? I'm doing it a year early anyway. I can't fail it. I've got another year. I thought it was all a bit of a mistake anyway.
So I ended up getting myself a B, which I was very pleased about. I just think that there's power in that. There's power in not worrying what other people think. Yeah. Or actually even using it to help you. Yeah, both agree. Not worry what people think, but using it to your advantage for sure. Yeah. Completely. I've always not really bothered what people think. My dad says, like I remember telling me when I was like little, he'd be like, you can't, don't compete with others. because there's no one like you.
So just compete with yourself. And I used to think that's really amazing because you used to always then fill it up with the, be cool as a cucumber. I mean, they were, they were the things. I mean, that's cute. So yeah. I love it. Well, Mona, thank you. Thanks an absolute million. Thank you. Get you out, get this podcast out there and inspire lots of people. Thank you. Lots of people knocking on your door, I'm sure.
Yeah, great. Would you like to put a medical centre in Yemen? Yeah, absolutely. We need someone, we need someone who needs to help us with that. All right my lovely. Great. Thank you so much and see you soon.

▶ Play this clip